puttin' up hot sauce.

Spence, this is sad funny. Imagine a world where Bud is King of beer and Taco Johns King of Mexican food. Where MacDonalds sells the most burgers, Skippy rules the Peanut Butter market, and almost all yogurt sold in the US is now either 1% milkfat or none. Where consumption of soda pop is greater than that of water.


Imagine a world where young people advertise for major conglomerates with the clothes they wear. The world where Spice Girls or Spears or whomever with proper packaging can become a monster hit outselling the Beatles.

Can someone explain to me why the women in music videos, even the country outlets, wear black underwear and not much else?

Serve them drek until they like it. Sheesh. We are heading for an international staple diet of slightly fermented porridge. It will taste the same whether we shovel it into our mouths or watch it on TV.

But the TV screens will be enormous, wall size. And we'll work 60hour plus weeks for the privilege.

I like HI Khukuris because they are the last of the real.


munk
 
Munk DITTO

I have bounced around the knife forums, various catalogs on knives.
Nothing really appeals to me, except the HI variations.

I'm really happy with the assortment I have. Getting quite a few. Have to give some of them away this holiday season, but no regrets, well a little bit of regret. I hope my sons and grandsons appreciate them as much as I do.
 
DITTO right back. I've given away two of them, only own seven, I think

...someone stole a machette off a quad from a local. This guy has a heart of gold, always helping people. I was going to sell him my 15" AK (so I could more easily pay Bill my debt) but got ahold of myself in time and just gave the blade to him. He needed it.

I liked the little AK. I wonder in ten years if I'll still carry some of the 18"s around or will gravitate to the smaller blades, like my BAS. Probably get so infirm I'll carry the paper cutter.


munk
 
munk,

The beer thing in England has been going on for years...and in Europe (even Belgium!!) too, from what I've read. The young generation decided tasty cask ales and scotch were for old people, and they wanted Peenze-wasser and vodka drinks.

There's been several times that I've encountered some beer I remebered really liking, only to be less than impressed with a recent example. Why did I think it was so great before? Then I found out...because it was. But the recipe or process has been changed for "efficiency" or "marketability". Or the product in the US has been produced by some mega-brewer in the US or Canada under license and more resembles the usual mega-brew than the original. So we not only have great beers being swapped out for Bud, some are evolving into Bud. Many breweries are getting swallowed up into huge brewing conglomerates, who alter or discontinue the old production methods.

Of course, the "malt-ternative" beverages being marketed by distilleries are the latest insult. In the US, beverages derived from hard liquor, no matter what the alcohol content can't be sold in six-packs like beer. Those things are all spawn of the vile progenitor, "Zima". They don't contain a drop of the distilled spirit being used to market them. They suck the flavor out of bad beer and replace it with other bad flavors.

Sad, I'm reminded of the grocery store in the movie "Repo-man"....
 
I wonder if Newcastle Brown Ale is still good? I remember reading a score of ales once and NCB didn't get very high on the list. But what do people know? Consumer Reports picked JIFF peanut butter as the number one best tasting in America, over a then available product called 'Hollywood'. Hollywood peanut butter appears not to exist any longer, but while it was around, it was the very best, imho.

Usually Firkin, I look to be enlightened by you. On this occasion your knowledge has depressed me.

I'd stopped drinking by the time Zima came out. I notice there are all sorts of weird things in six pacs today. What is Hard Cola by the Bourbon manufacturer, Jack Daniels, if not whiskey in coke? It is in six pacs.

munk

some of you may recall Hunter S Thompson once hid several cases of the precious Newcastle Brown in the trunk of his car, not sharing with his Hells Angels associates. He thought it too good to be wasted on them. If the ale had been found he could have been stomped just for holding out on them. He wrote about this in a not very good book called, Hells Angels.
 
I haven't noticed any change in Newcastle Brown, but it's not one of my usuals. I find it quite tasty though, and it's not heavy-bodied. It's a good "session" beer, not to high in alcohol, so you drink for a while and socialize with-out getting trashed or over-full. It is pretty much mega-brewed, but I think any change would flop since the consumers are pretty loyal to the brand. When I have the money, I generally go for more intense brews and sip instead of quaff them. And I kinda consider beer as food, so I also go for the thick ones.

As far as consumer reports goes they seem to be morons regrading beer from the few articles I've seen. Beer and ale are as varied as cheeses. Just like some cheeses are crumbly, or runny, or stinky, or salty, or smokey, some beers are supposed to be thin-bodied, or thick-bodied, or yeasty, or sour, and yes, sometimes even smokey. Judging all beers/ales by a single set of criteria is like judging all cheese against Velveeta.

Usually Firkin, I look to be enlightened by you. On this occasion your knowledge has depressed me.
Click to expand...

It's not all bad, many little new guys are still starting up, and trying to carry on or re-create the old ways, in the US and abroad. But it's sad that some old classics have vanished or changed to something else. Some things just can't be mass-produced or mass-marketed. And you can't suddenly try to make twice as much and get the same thing.

What is Hard Cola by the Bourbon manufacturer, Jack Daniels, if not whiskey in coke? It is in six pacs.
Click to expand...

hmmm, what's cheese-whiz if not cheese in an aerosol can???

My understanding is that a high gravity beer is made from the palest available malts, with the inclusion of adjuncts like rice and corn. Mybe some malt with particularly high enzyme levels are added to help eat the rice starch. Or perhaps some of the culture employed to make sake from rice is added. Mash for maximum conversion of carbohydrates to fermentable sugars. Ferment.


This fermentation gives a "beer" with high alcohol,no body, and maximum conversion of starches. Think of as "dry" beer style with no hops. Filter at low temp. Maybe even filter this stuff through charcoal or something so that there is no annoying residual beer flavor.

Then you dilute it to the desired alcohol level, add cola syrup, and bourbon flavoring, perhaps not neccesarily in that order.

Cool it down, force-carbonate like soda pop, and bottle. Great ain't it????

You can guess how you concoct "rum" drinks, etc.

BTW, toss in barely discernable ammount of hop-extract, and omit the bourbon-flavor and cola syrup and you've got.....Bud!!!
 
I used to like the darkest heaviest brews myself. I liked Newcastle for similar reasons as yourself. It went with everything without imposing, it had character without overiding. I only drank Newcastle while still in Ca, and all brew there is designated pretty low in Alcohol. In Montana I've noticed beer is over 5 percent, ale higher. You are right about cheese, brew, and Consumer reports.

I'm going to read the cover of the Jack hard cola. I coulda sworn it mentioned containing good old 'number 7' (11?)


I never got around to asking Uncle if he drinks Heinekin regular or dark.


munk
 
munk,

I don't know when you left California, I've lived here three times in the last 25 years. The federal government and many states, California included (don't know about Montana) have a veritable legal quagmire regarding the acceptable names and alcohol content of beverages, both distilled and non-distilled. For example, only Jack and Dickle are "Tennessee"--they must be charcoal filtered to get that designation. Bourbon has to contain at least 51% corn in the mash bill, and be aged for a minimum of two years in new charred barrels, but is not charcoal filtered. Straight rye (my current fave since I can't afford single malt scotch at this time, and bourbon and Tennesee are too sweet for me) has to be 51% rye. Blah, Blah, Blah. Hard stuff seems to be regulated more at the Federal level, but the states seem to have free reign for non-distilled, fermented malt products.

In many states "beer" is a legal term, and product cannot be labeled as such if it exceeds a certain alcohol content. Several years ago when I lived in Cali, many imported beers bore a required, additional small label that said "malt liquor" because the alcohol content exceeded a certain level. But "beer" did not appear on the labels.
['Malt liquor' is a perjorative term among many beer-geeks as in the US it often refers to adding sugar to ordinary wort in order to produce high-octane Bud--but it tastes even worse--think Mickey's...like most things, this can be done right, like some Belgians which have a particular type of sugar added with wonderful effect, or some British brews which incorporate treacle] In some states, terms like ale, stout, porter, take on a legal meaning that allows a higher alcohol content than "beer" in addition to the traditional and meaningful product description. I have heard of cases where breweries petitioned states to have the term "ice" accorded similar status. BTW, "ice" for these folks means taking piss-beer and freezing out some of the water and removing it. Not much different than "malt liquor", really. And same crappy taste. The "Mad-Dog" of beers. The german Eis-bier is a dopplebock or triplebock so treated to produce an very thick, intense sipping brew with an alcohol content of 10-12%, not lawn-mower beer at 6-7% that frat boys can chug a half-case of for a quick buzz.

Some states have a max alcohol content for non-distilled beverages brewed from grain, but of course, none for those made from fruits or grapes.
I think in Georgia, it is 6.5 %. Apparently wasn't enforced when I lived there, but it is now. Many fine lagers and ales are now not available in that state. Dopplebocks, barleywines, most Belgian products, and many fine domestic microbrews, especially "winter warmers" or holiday brews are banned.

At this time California seems to have shed many past restrictions,I haven't seen any of the malt liquour stickers, and can find very excellent locally produced (and commensurately premium-priced) brews that are 11-12% alcohol by volume, as well as imports. Of course these are slow-sipping brews, not thirst-quenchers, regardless of the corpulence of one's wallet.

As far as the "Hard Cola" goes, my guess is that it contains some bit of "natural flavoring" derived from #7, but none of the alcohol. For many distilleries, I think that the association is in conglomerate ownership or marketing arrangement only. I think in Europe, they are able to mix and dilute the original distilled liquor to produce the final product. I imagine that the "beer" route is cheaper, though....Maybe in some countries in Europe they are required to incorporate some of the actual liquor????:)
 
Originally posted by munk
Spence, this is sad funny. Imagine a world where Bud is King of beer and Taco Johns King of Mexican food. Where MacDonalds sells the most burgers, Skippy rules the Peanut Butter market, and almost all yogurt sold in the US is now either 1% milkfat or none. Where consumption of soda pop is greater than that of water.


Imagine a world where young people advertise for major conglomerates with the clothes they wear. The world where Spice Girls or Spears or whomever with proper packaging can become a monster hit outselling the Beatles.

Can someone explain to me why the women in music videos, even the country outlets, wear black underwear and not much else?

Serve them drek until they like it. Sheesh. We are heading for an international staple diet of slightly fermented porridge. It will taste the same whether we shovel it into our mouths or watch it on TV.

But the TV screens will be enormous, wall size. And we'll work 60hour plus weeks for the privilege.

munk
Click to expand...

Ok, munk. Now that you have me really depressed, what do you do for an encore?

To make matters worse, I just heard from a fellow Trappist ale fancier (Trappist ale = traditional ale brewed by Trappist monks) that the La Trappe brewery in Holland (Holland's only Trappist producer that I know of) is ceasing production.
 
Firkin, I lived in Calif over 35 years. Beer was 3.2 Malt liquor a tad more...I'm thinking 5 or 4.5 Imported beer did not have alcohol levels exceeding that. You could drink Guiness Stout and it was not stout. At least this was the talk of the college campuses, and generally considered fact by drinkers throughout the state. The companies would make a product for the Cal market.

I drank before the time of the labels 'malt liquor' on the imports.

You know a lot about this stuff, tell me, back in my maximum consumption days I calculated the price per 0z of alcohol and the hangover factor and concluded a Vodka,like Popoff, was about right. It was cheaper than good stuff, but not so cheap as to be chock full of grain neutral spirits which are killers. Maybe it was the same amount of grain neutral spirits but the filters were better. And I didn't even really like Vodka. Like you, I preferred a single malt scotch. Bourbon really had too much sugar and other stuff to tolerate. I once drank a fifth of bourbon every night for one year, straight. At the end of that time, I could no longer drink anything straight, and even had to put milk in my coffee.

Towards the end of my career (when women and small dogs would avoid me on the sidewalk.) the preferrence was one of those Big Gulp cups about 2/3 full of vodka, a little cranberry juice, and a few cubes of ice. I would administer this medicinally on a PRN basis. That basis was all moments while awake.

What fond memories...once so poor, it was all I could do to muster 4 bucks for two bottles of Nightrain Express. That was pure grain neutral spirits, apple juice, grape flavored. There are not many hangovers or DT's experiences more psychotic than one derrived from Nightrain.
I understand the Coast had something called, "Diamond Red' I was always sorry I never had a chance to become clueless while chugging ole diamond red.

sniff,

munk
 
munk,


Firkin, I lived in Calif over 35 years. Beer was 3.2 Malt liquor a tad more...I'm thinking 5 or 4.5 Imported beer did not have alcohol levels exceeding that. You could drink Guiness Stout and it was not stout. At least this was the talk of the college campuses, and generally considered fact by drinkers throughout the state. The companies would make a product for the Cal market.

I drank before the time of the labels 'malt liquor' on the imports.
Click to expand...

I think I left California about 198O, no stickers then as I recall, but Heiniken and Lowenbrau and Dos Equis were "exotic", as was stuff like Heileman's from the upper midwest. And a local micro or two had stuff available. Returned about 1985, and most every beer from Bavaria had a sticker on it...I would take a few bocks or dopplebocks like this somewhere, and people would be insulted, thinking that I'd brought the German version of Colt 45, instead of a rich dark beer--until somebody opened and poured one. BTW, remember when the Colt 45 ads had a Bond-look-alike in a spotless white suit instead of ghetto gangstas???

Guiness never was a high alcohol product...except for a version for tropical countries, presumably so the higher alcohol could help with preservation.
As I recall the draft stuff has less alcohol than the bottled. In the UK, beer is taxed according to the alcohol content, which may account for the development of strong-tasting, but low alchol content brews. I've had the tropical stuff once, many years ago. BTW all the Guiness now in the US is brewed in Canada under license. The "extra stout" from there is a shadow of version that used to come from Ireland, and the new "draft" versions with a nitrogen widget are totally bland and thin. Another casualty.

The 3.2 thing is another great example of mass- confused legislation....That's 3.2 % by WEIGHT. That's about 4% by VOLUME. (ethanol is less dense than water) Except for states with 3.2 laws, most everybody else uses % by volume. I don't know if California ever had a 3.2 law per see, or if that applied only to things with the word "beer" on the label. Of course, big brewers had to decide which to try and standardize for their multi-state markets, alcohol content (no matter what units were used), labeling, or both. Some states didn't/don't ALLOW the alcohol content on the label citing the theory that it somehow encourages those purchasing beer solely for the buzz. As if they don't quickly figure out what does the job.

You know a lot about this stuff, tell me, back in my maximum consumption days I calculated theprice per 0z of alcohol and the hangover factor and concluded a Vodka,like Popoff, was about right. It was cheaper than good stuff, but not so cheap as to be chock full of grain neutral spirits which are killers. Maybe it was the same amount of grain neutral spirits but the filters werebetter. And I didn't even really like Vodka. Like you, I preferred a single malt scotch. Bourbon really had too much sugar and other stuff to tolerate. I once drank a fifth of bourbon every night for one year, straight. At the end of that time, I could no longer drink anything straight, and even had to put milk in my coffee.
Click to expand...

Thankfully, I've never had to make such calculations, the few times I couldn't remember scared me pretty good, and I am pretty careful with the hard stuff--plus, I've a low threshold for early barfing. Waking up after being dragged home to discover no skin on the top of my barefoot toes, or finding out some friends watched me all night to make sure I didn't choke, or yacking up blood after three of us drank a bottle of 151 pretty much did it for me. Don't know what you mean by "grain neutral spirits" unless its ketones and higher alcohols, which there is likely less of in the clear, tasteless, triply distilled things like Vodka, which by the way can be made from most any grain or starch like potatoes. Ethanol is ethanol, no matter the origin--it's impurities that differentiate products. BTW, acetone (a ketone) is a metabolic product from metabolizing ethanol, and it's not good for you (fingernail polish remover). If one drinks some cheap booze where they tried to stretch out the distillation cuts, and some acetone, or other ketones are already present, that's a real head-start on a hang-over which will be worse than usual. I think sugar makes things worse, and I can't stand just about any alcoholic drink with lots of sugar--it just doesn't taste good to me, whether one drink or more. I guess that keeps me away from lots of nasty stuff. My rule is if it doesn't taste and smell good straight or with a small amount of water, it's not fit to drink, period.

Several beers while cooking and eating dinner does it for me. I can find a few cheap beers that are tolerable when I've not much money--I can't and don't drink cheapo wine and hard stuff. When I've money I can get or two really amazing large bottles of beer for the price of an acceptable, but just OK wine. I usually only get wine if I'm going to cook with it. I often cook with beer. I guess I'm a value-oriented consumer, with taste being valued most. Fortunately, I've not become one where alcohol content is valued most.


If I had to concoct a death-cocktail with minimum short-term pain, I guess water and Golden Grain or pharm-grade ethanol, mixed to desired proof, add flavoring of choice and a few Alka-seltzer tabs. Probably tastes vile, and if aspirin is regularly consumed too, a great way to get a hole in the stomach. But I don't have to, and this is definately not a recommendation.

Nightrain, I remember TV adds for that stuff, it's pretty vile as I recall. There was lots of nasty stuff like that was pushed hard for a while. Red Lady, a cheap knock-off of Mad Dog 20/20 was another. I just couldn't choke either of those down, and I was a culinary ignoramus back then.
 
Beer, ale, mead, and wine for that matter, aren't hard to make yourself, and the results can be surprisingly good. Why if I could get my hands on a bottle of Lord Gwyddno Ap Gryffyd's Dragon's Flight Mead, I'd share it with all of you..........honest I would.;) :p

Sarge
 
I made Orange Wine as a high school biology project. My co-worker drank too much after recieving our grade and was carted off a field in a public park after school.


Firkin, you know scads more than I, and my memory is shot, especially now with my health, but anything that wasn't 'straight' be that malt or whatever, was a blend, and the laws allowing something to be called whiskey required a certain amount of real whiskey in there and allowed a certain amount of 'grain neutral spirits" ; alcohol from other sources, other distillations. I don't know about labels now, but some of them used to list how much. That's why I wouldn't drink 'calvert' or others. The cheap vodkas may be primarily 'grain neutral, but someone once told me the filtration process was what made things good from poor.

Where do cheap alcohols come from? I thought a lot of that was vodka- potatos. Ive never liked vodka enough to buy a good one, so I wouldn't know if he potato could ever be noble.

Sarge, I think you would share some of that mead.

munk
 
we need to pool our resourses and start a HI brewery or better, a distillery.

munk, where in Montana r u from. i reside in Clyde Park, just outside of Livingston.
 
Firkin, you know scads more than I, and my memory is shot, especially now with my health,
but anything that wasn't 'straight' be that malt or whatever, was a blend, and the laws allowing something to be called whiskey required a certain amount of real whiskey in there and allowed a certain amount of 'grain neutral spirits" ; alcohol from other sources, other distillations.
Click to expand...

OK, now I know what you mean....depends on what kind of booze is getting blended.

Typically the "neutral" stuff that is used for blending (diluting good or expensive stuff) comes from continuous production stills...They keep feeding in mash and collect distillate from a rigorously controlled factory-still. I don't know if they periodically shut down to get the undistilled stuff out of the pot, or just drain some out before adding more new stuff. They have to switch collectors at times when stuff other than ethanol/water is coming out. But....no matter what the source of the fermentables is, if enough care is taken to distill, or it is redistilled, eventually you get a mixture of 95% ethanol and 5% water, which is pharm-grade. I don't think that they go this far for blending and they don't get that high a proof, but this product doesn't have to be more hang-over inducing. Theoretically it should be less, as the distillation process is more rigorously controlled. But more pure, means more costly, and I don't know how the balance is arrived at. Most is never available to consumers, but used for blending.

So what's "grain"? I think that means rice, corn, rye, barley, whatever... So "grain spirits" are made from a mixture of those. Note that vodka can be made from any of these grains as well as other fermentable sources, it just isn't aged and is carefully distilled to keep the flavor neutral. I don't know if there are any legal requirements for fermentables for vodka.

As I understand it, the blending spirit for scotch must come from barley alone. Some of these are said to be quite palatable, and are apparently sometimes available in the UK after a couple of years of aging.

So what's the "good" stuff??? That comes from small "pot stills", which are essentially alembics. They need to be emptied and recharged after each run. Scotch is generallly distilled twice, some three times, in the same or different pot still. The exact shape and differential heating patterns affect the product, since things like carmelization etc. occur. This accounts in part for the differences in various single malts. Such effects are avoided in the production of the blending spirits, and likely vodka. Again I don't know much about vodka.

Don't know for certain, but I bet there are high and low quality blending spirits produced, like everything else.

Sometimes a product is available that consists of ONE single malt that has been cut with the blending spirit. I think the name for those is "vatted". Don't know it any aging occurs before or after blending. This retains the character of the single malt, as opposed the usual process where perhaps tens of single malts and the neutral spirits are blended to a pre-selected flavor profile, which is what the blended products are. The recipe is adjusted to insure constant product over time--as different "vintages" of the single malts can vary, especially ones made in a more traditional fashion--They don't control building temperatures rigorously, etc. The producers of such blended products employ professional tasters and analytical chemists which constantly monitor the process by examining taste, smell, color, and whatever things instrumentation can tell them.

That's about all that I know on the matter.
 
Padi, I live in Eastern Montana, but have family reasons for not being more specific. Glad to see a fellow from HI in the State!


munk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top