Puukko Purist Questions

Reread the posts up to your initial post Pinnah. A few of the guys that commented, especially Frederick89, have studied the puukko for a long time, tracing its history, qualities and attributes. This isn't the first time the questions have come up. There is another thread regarding puukkos here with lots of historical info and many pics.

Yes, I'm familiar with the other thread and yes, I read all the posts prior to my post. IMO, Alberta Ed has given the strongest discussion, as he allows for the appropriate level of variation on a theme. Given the wide range of grind heights and blade cross sections among FINNISH manufacturers of puukos, I would be hesitant to insist that there is agreement on any set of essential defining attributes. More deeply (and the point of my post) is that classification systems based on essential attributes fail in practice. Unless the goal is to spark long threads on the internet. Then they work wonderfully as people get to debate endlessly about what's in, what's out and how to deal with edge cases. Better to pick some classic examplars (as you've posted) and call it a day.


Very interesting comments and beautiful photos folks.

Pinnah, I too tend to over think things. I have always struggled with gray areas. I dislike words like "Almost"

In the big scheme of things, this isn't that important.

Part of my thought process in asking these questions. Stems from what I see as an increasing popularity in Puukko Knives, or Puukko Style knives.

If a Puukko must originate in Finland. Then my Puukko Style Malanika Knife will arrive in a few weeks. Is it any less of a knife. Certainly not. And I eagerly await its arrival.

To take it one step further. When searching the bay or other sites, for specific pieces of military gear. I see the word "style" used to excess. To me, Military Style, is not the same as military. Much the same same American Style is not the same as American.

I definitely get, that a Puukko is in many respects similar to a Bowie knife. Both carry certain inherent classifications and characteristics that make them such. Yet there are many thousands of variations. Since the history and lore of the Puukko goes back considerably further than the Bowie. It stands to reason there would be even a wider array of descriptions, stories, legends and other components to the story.

I tend to classify rather than characterize. A shortcoming no doubt.

I was just wondering if we will see the word Puukko go the way of the word Bushcraft? Or if it will remain more true to it's origins. Personally, I hope it remains true.

LV, I think that thinking about how we think is always important. Certainly worth talking about.

Classification as a shortcoming?? That's a bit strong. Perhaps better to say that when setting out to do classification based on essential features that you need to have your eyes wide open about the kinds of problems that approach will generate. If you're building a database, you can't escape the problem really. The alternative is to think about categories in a different way. I find that more useful, particularly when dealing with analysis issues, like thinking about knives.

Find some classic Puukos. Knives that are closely similar are more puuko. Knives that are less so, are less puuko.
 
Some do get miffed, when there are variations over the traditional Puukko design.

Some even turn up their noses at the angular Tapio Wirkkala Puukkos.

I like them a lot as they feels nice and secure in the hand.

Here are two of mine:











Very nice working knives - the smaller sees quite a bit of use.

Personally I welcome variations but in regards to the purists, they will get up in arms over for example this beautiful Mark Andrews full tang, which the maker calls a puukko.

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I like it but people are different.

That Andrews is a fine looking knife, but I don't think I'd call it a puukko. It's not the faceted handle, but rather the exposed full tang construction. You just don't find those on Finnish knives. Who knows, maybe you have something unique or the first of its kind.
 
Haramina makes puukkos. That's why I referenced the Finnish tradition. It's not enough to look at country of origin, as Pinnah says you have to compare things to known exemplars. If country of origin was the sole criteria, Mora could move its operations East and we'd then refer to their wares as puukko.

:confused:
 
That Andrews is a fine looking knife, but I don't think I'd call it a puukko. It's not the faceted handle, but rather the exposed full tang construction. You just don't find those on Finnish knives. Who knows, maybe you have something unique or the first of its kind.

The Andrews full tang is not mine unfortunately.

Only the two Tapio Wirkkala knives are mine😊
 
If a Finlandish blade smith makes a Puuko in let's say Italy is it still a Puuko?
What if the steel comes from another country? What if the tree for the handle grew in Finnland but is from a species which is relatively new over there?

If it isn't a protected and strictly defined term like Thuringian Bratwurst, or Feta cheese one can define it for themselves however one wants.

In my opinion the more Finnish and original the better.
 
I understand that there is likely more to a puukko than meets the eye and I say this with the caveat that I do not own any puukko or "puukko style" knives so my experience with them is limited. However, when I see a puukko, I know it is a puukko or at least a puukko style, as it has a rather distinctive look to it and is hard to mistake. That being said, there are certainly features that may be far more subtle than what most folks might pick up on. In fact, there is a whole Wikipedia entry about them...

However, I can't help but feel this discussion is much akin to that of folks who talk about what defines a Bowie knife as a Bowie knife. Everyone has an opinion regarding what features they expect to see on a Bowie, much the same here but in regards to puukkos. For such a simple knife as a Puukko, it sure is generating a lot of thoughts...

I think Jens Schuetz sums it up nicely...

If it isn't a protected and strictly defined term like Thuringian Bratwurst, or Feta cheese one can define it for themselves however one wants.
 
All in seriousness, the way I see it, Puukko has often been described as "clean, streamlined knife with no obtrusive guards or trinkets that fits well in your hand and doesn't fatigue your hand". And of course there are regions with their own style of traditions (such as Tommi Puukko) and sheath decorations.

In my opinion, when I think of typical old fashioned Puukko I think of something like this:

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(Mikko Inkeroinen)

But that of course - is just my opinion. :D
 
Also regarding the word "Puukko", it is often the word used for knives overall. I don't think that many people gasp if you call your Mora, Marttiini or other mass manufactured knives "puukko". The debate begins though, when you ask "what makes traditional puukko?".
 
Some of what I have bought over the years. I greatly prefer the Tommi-style puukkos. These are all very comfortable in hand.

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LV...you will be more than impressed with Danijel's work. His knives are spot on amazing and worth every penny. You will love that 80crv2 blade steel!

While Danijel lives in Croatia, he has studied from the best Finnish knife makers so that his puukkos are based out of the history of the knife and you'll find that he uses a puukko for all tasks from kitchen duty and hunting to woodwork, as the design was intended. (He owns many knives from Finnish makers).

The areas of distinction carry a gray area and some crossover but I can tell from your responses that you see that and can make a good determination on what constitutes a puukko and what would fall under the "puukko style".

Be sure to post up your thoughts on the Malanika when you get it! I sold the one I bought from Danijel but I'm either going to order another or wait for the right one to pop up on the exchange.

Jsega,

I think you pretty much nailed for me.

In reading about Danijel. I was was drawn in by his story of finding his perfect knife. And how after trying many designs from other people and factories how he came to discover what for him was the perfect knife.

Obviously the phrase "Perfect Knife" is very subjective. And I'm fine with that. Mostly because I only looking for mine. I'm not looking for other's. My needs, wants, and skills, have evolved over time. So my requirements have changed also.

What drew me to start looking for puukkos was exactly what Danijel describes in his own experience. Versatility comes to mind for me. The ability to seamlessly go from making breakfast, to cleaning game, to making camp, to fire prep. There are certainly better dedicated single purpose knives out there for each task. But the ability to do most well pulls me in.

As I read his story, I couldn't help but see parallels. I have draws full of blades from my own search. All, or at least most, wonderful knives in their own right. And many may be the perfect knife for someone. Some come very close for me.

As I age, a process I sometimes wish I could stop. I come to view life through different eyes. Simplicity rocks my boat these days. I see great beauty in thing like candle lantrens, kerosene lamps, dutch ovens. And many other such items.

Perhaps this is what drives me toward the puukko. It has such a simple elegance about it. From the blade to the sheath. It has all it needs, and nothing it doesn't.

I saw the Aito here on blade. And I was impressed with its lines. Most of the reviews were positive. So I took a chance. I was just as impressed when it arrived. In truth it could have come sharper. I was less than impressed with its level of sharpness. So I tinkered a bit here and there, in between other projects.

After the other knife challenge ended. I was eager to pick up the Aito. It still wasn't where I wanted/needed it to be. Yet I missed using it. I have been using it steady for close to two weeks. And working on the edge as I went along. Recently, as I sat in the woods by a fire. I couldn't help but marvel at the thing. The birch back handle is visually stunning. But in hand it is amazing. Especially in temps at or below zero. With my use, and continued stropping it came into it own. I could feel it improve with each passing day.

Yesterday afternoon, I was up in the woods prepping for a fire. And suddenly, almost like magic. The Aito began rolling curls down a piece of seasoned beech with almost no effort. Maybe it was the piece of wood, maybe I was on my game, maybe it was the knife. I'm not sure, nor do I care. As long as I can repeat it most of the time I will be pleased.

Fast forward to this morning. My wife is out of town. So I chose to treat myself to a traditional American breakfast delicacy, Spam. Now Spam is not hard to cut. It can be done with a spoon if need be. But I chose to use the Aito. It is the first time in my life I ever cut a piece of Spam and went wow!. I needed two pieces. I cut three, just because I was having such a good time. Cutting Spam, how ridiculous is that?

If I can derive joy from cutting Stuff Posing As Meat. I may have very well found my perfect knife. I have been carrying it in the traditional Finnish location. At the left front. As a young child, I always carried my knife on the weak side. Because I always had some sort of a toy gun on my strong side. So it seems natural to me.

I read somehwere recently, maybe even on here. That in Finland they used to take puukkos away from young children in school. And give them other cutting instruments. To force them to learn other techniques. They could do almost all of the tasks required of them with such ease using their puukkos that teachers felt itwas not of enough of a challenge.

That type of familiarity come with years of use and practice. And it doesn't hurt to start at a very young age. This was another thing that draws me in. If young children can accomplish all they need with this blade. Why can't I do the same.

This could be a fling, or it could be the early stages of a life long love affair. To be brutally honest. I'm not sure which it is yet. I have to believe Danijel's knife will be a step up from my Aito in just about every aspect. I already know, it will be difficult for me to put it into that first piece of wood. But I plan on forcing myself to do so.

I have had a lot of fun with a lot of knives. Much of it documented on here. Making breakfast with my SP-10 Raider Bowie. Building bucksaws with a Nessmuk. Making chairs and spears with my KA-BAR. Celebrating New Year's with the Opinel, and many more good times. I enjoyed each and every one of them. But I have always been driven to keep searching.

I can't help but wonder, If I stand a the edge of that rainbow?

It certainly doesn't hurt that I find these knives beautiful to look at either. Here is my Aito resting on my hat after earning its keep doing fire prep.



I am really liking this knife,
 
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If a Finlandish blade smith makes a Puuko in let's say Italy is it still a Puuko?
What if the steel comes from another country? What if the tree for the handle grew in Finnland but is from a species which is relatively new over there?

If it isn't a protected and strictly defined term like Thuringian Bratwurst, or Feta cheese one can define it for themselves however one wants.

In my opinion the more Finnish and original the better.

Even if protected, it can still be defined by the consumer. Sometimes the "un-original" is better than the protected material. For example, although Feta cheese has been protected since 2002 as a Greek product, there is a lot of discussion among Feta-lovers about what country has the best Feta cheese. Those in the know say it's Bulgaria :) and I agree. I'll take Bulgarian Feta over Greek any day. There is some Chicago-made feta that is marketed as "Bulgarian Style"...but it's not :) I met a guy at the ICCE who was doing pukko knives and he was from Oregon and his knives were excellent.
 
What about an American with Finnish ancestors who went back to Finland specifically to learn about the puukko? Theo Eichorn moved to Finland for three years IIRC and apprenticed under Taisto Kuortti and Jukka Hankala, among others. He also makes other sorts of knives, but he definitely knows how to make puukkot.
 
Even if protected, it can still be defined by the consumer. Sometimes the "un-original" is better than the protected material. For example, although Feta cheese has been protected since 2002 as a Greek product, there is a lot of discussion among Feta-lovers about what country has the best Feta cheese. Those in the know say it's Bulgaria :) and I agree. I'll take Bulgarian Feta over Greek any day. There is some Chicago-made feta that is marketed as "Bulgarian Style"...but it's not :) I met a guy at the ICCE who was doing pukko knives and he was from Oregon and his knives were excellent.
Sure. And Mercedes is the better Lexus for some though most will still call it Mercedes Benz ;-)

Can I make better food than organic and then sell it as organic without being certified? Nope. I can call it organic among my friends though but it's still not organic, even if it's better.
 
LV, thanks for the reply and thoughtful post. I'm looking forward to pics of you putting your new knife to use when it arrives! Stay warm up there. I went to college at Oswego and loved it when campus was getting hammered with 70 mph winds and 5ft of snow lol.

The weather back down here in Olean is much calmer!
 
I love my Malanika puukko. Easily one of my favorite knives. It's not "traditional" in the sense that the handle isn't the "correct" material, but I feel as if he hits the nail on the head with his puukko knives. Form, function, durability.

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