ugh actually i am agonizing over dying it or not, help me decide if i just darken up the natural color with mineral oil or dye it all black, have a test piece of dyed leather to compare. i am leaning towards natural ...but i did go out of my way to get leather dye for this. the single hardest choice in the whole build.
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How To puukko question
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Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
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Don't dye it. Most puukko have natural leather sheaths. Oil and wax is the norm.
appreciate the reassurance, the natural look fits better imo. knowing modern leather dyes and especially black only being like 300 years old kinda made me feel like i would regret it if i dyed. black with stamping is a good look still i will probably make a more average type of side-seamed sheath for my old skrama 80 with that kind of look so my extra leather and dye dont go to waste.
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
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If you want to accentuate the carving and only slightly tint the leather first apply neatsfoot oil. Then after it has dried, apply tan color Antique Finish. Rub off the antiquing right after it is applied. Rub and buff with a soft cloth. It will stay in the cuts/stampings, but mostly rub off the smooth surfaces. Once that is dry, apply a coat of Leather Balm with Atom Wax
again thanks for all the information, thats another great tip i really do appreciate it all the info you have shared!
added the dangler strap last night and refinished the horn and brass sections. didnt have to hand sand up every grit to 2k like i usually do for brass as i found my dremel buffing wheel (wow makes a even polish much easier to obtain i usually always just hand polish but those rouge tru oil drips were really difficult to remove evenly with sandpaper so i took the risk).
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DeadPineKnives
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That sucks dude, good birch bark doesn't do that... I would see about trading with someone who lives up north rather than buying it!
Nice job!!!just finished my first sheath and wondered if there were any 3d printable leather stamps floating around, worked out pretty good i think. try searching for stamps made for clay on stl hosting sites if you cant find leather specific ones,
doesnt look half bad, better than my stitching anyways lol. the rolling patterned discs work especially well
we got some local to me but like i said the population is small i wouldnt want to contribute to them doing poorly esp when there's already been so much development in the area. I thought the bark i got would be fresher tho since i got it from an etsy seller with good reviews only a state away.
SwissHeritageCo
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Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
I'm looking for information on a specific puukko building method and I can't find any info about, thought you might be able to point me in the right direction.
I once owned Maasepan puukko that used two wedges against the tang inside the handle instead of a more exacting drilled slot/cutout.
It seemed really sturdy and somehow looked really clean where the shoulders meet the handle. I was wondering if you were familiar with this method and if it's any easier than more traditional methods of securing the tang?
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
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For those not familiar:
The maasepän puukko is the oldest form of puukko and the most traditional Nordric knife. I love the simple no-frills look ... a simple blade and a simple wooden handle. Sheaths were simple, too. Handles were often sealed in birch tar.
I have made a lot of them in the past with Masur Birch handles. (Note to self, - make some more)
My brother made them while living in Finland while staying with a rural blacksmith. His were rough forged with only the edge ground. The handles were birch. They painted the handle with birch tar and rubbed it in. Sheaths were wrapped with thin strips of some swamp root over a birch shell. Not fancy, but functional.
The wedges you describe are similar to the same technique used on wa handles on Japanese knives. It is often called the dowel method.
I did a Custom Search Engine search and got several threads on it:
The maasepän puukko is the oldest form of puukko and the most traditional Nordric knife. I love the simple no-frills look ... a simple blade and a simple wooden handle. Sheaths were simple, too. Handles were often sealed in birch tar.
I have made a lot of them in the past with Masur Birch handles. (Note to self, - make some more)
My brother made them while living in Finland while staying with a rural blacksmith. His were rough forged with only the edge ground. The handles were birch. They painted the handle with birch tar and rubbed it in. Sheaths were wrapped with thin strips of some swamp root over a birch shell. Not fancy, but functional.
The wedges you describe are similar to the same technique used on wa handles on Japanese knives. It is often called the dowel method.
I did a Custom Search Engine search and got several threads on it:
Hi there
I've seen some tutorials about using the dowel method for WA handles. They show how to use this method with 5 minute epoxy. Is 5 minute epoxy essential to this method? I like to use it with G/Flex epoxy because that is what I have.
Sometimes I see them applying vaseline or another fluid to the dowel to prevent the epoxy glue to stick to it during the initial glue up. I don't understand how this could NOT hinder the final glue up?
Some clarification on both my questions would be very nice
Thanks!
I've seen some tutorials about using the dowel method for WA handles. They show how to use this method with 5 minute epoxy. Is 5 minute epoxy essential to this method? I like to use it with G/Flex epoxy because that is what I have.
Sometimes I see them applying vaseline or another fluid to the dowel to prevent the epoxy glue to stick to it during the initial glue up. I don't understand how this could NOT hinder the final glue up?
Some clarification on both my questions would be very nice
Thanks!
SwissHeritageCo
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2021
- Messages
- 3,357
For those not familiar:
The maasepän puukko is the oldest form of puukko and the most traditional Nordric knife. I love the simple no-frills look ... a simple blade and a simple wooden handle. Sheaths were simple, too. Handles were often sealed in birch tar.
I have made a lot of them in the past with Masur Birch handles. (Note to self, - make some more)
My brother made them while living in Finland while staying with a rural blacksmith. His were rough forged with only the edge ground. The handles were birch. They painted the handle with birch tar and rubbed it in. Sheaths were wrapped with thin strips of some swamp root over a birch shell. Not fancy, but functional.
The wedges you describe are similar to the same technique used on wa handles on Japanese knives. It is often called the dowel method.
I did a Custom Search Engine search and got several threads on it:
Hi there
I've seen some tutorials about using the dowel method for WA handles. They show how to use this method with 5 minute epoxy. Is 5 minute epoxy essential to this method? I like to use it with G/Flex epoxy because that is what I have.
Sometimes I see them applying vaseline or another fluid to the dowel to prevent the epoxy glue to stick to it during the initial glue up. I don't understand how this could NOT hinder the final glue up?
Some clarification on both my questions would be very nice
Thanks!
You are amazing! I've been googling "the wedge method" to no avail, thank you
DeadPineKnives
Gold Member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2024
- Messages
- 96
I'm looking for information on a specific puukko building method and I can't find any info about, thought you might be able to point me in the right direction.
I once owned Maasepan puukko that used two wedges against the tang inside the handle instead of a more exacting drilled slot/cutout.
It seemed really sturdy and somehow looked really clean where the shoulders meet the handle. I was wondering if you were familiar with this method and if it's any easier than more traditional methods of securing the tang?
Any help would be greatly appreciated
I can't add any meaningful info, but that's how I like to make hidden tangs!
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
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Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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I looked at that thread and it isn't exactly what you wanted, but was close.
I decided to write a simple tutorial with some historical data for you.
The wedge method uses wedges applied to both sides of the blade tang. Some sort of glue is usually used, by many knives were only wedged and the handle held by friction.. Before modern glues, primitive glues like tars were either used alone, or mixed with fine powdered clay or wood dust. Other glues were beeswax, hot melt hide glues, and various "wood" glues.
The tang hole was opened up by whatever method was available. It early days, it was burned in with the actual blade tang or a similar size/shape piece of metal used as a burn-in tool. Using a burn-in tool was the best method and the metal could be heated as hot as you need and as often as needed without worry about ruining the temper of the blade. It also allowed use of cheaper iron instead of valuable steel.
With more modern methods and tools, the hole was often drilled as a round hole. Sometimes, the round hole was made to fit the tang by splitting a round dowel and using is as a wedge like filler on both sides ... as in the Japanese method.
Other times, the the basic hole is shaped to fit the tang with a handle hook or broach saw. A handle hook looks like a crochet hook with a single sharp hooked tooth on the end. The hook is used to scrape out the hole and make it fit the tang. A broach saw looks like a thin drywall saw. It is used like the hook, but works faster. Both are used as a set of tools to shape the tang hole. Most folks make their own hook and broach from steel and harden them, but you can buy them, too.
Once the hole is cleaned out the blade often rattles around in it. This is snugged up by long thin strips of wood slid down the holes alongside the tang. The strips should be just snug enough to push in and out with slight pressure. Once the strips are shaved to fit right, they are trimmed to be about 1" shorter than the tang hole depth, leaving room at the opening of the hole for the wedges. To close the opening, two wedge shaped pieces of wood are made that fit snug and are a little fatter at the wide end than will fit. a glue is applied (tar, beeswax, hide, wood glue, etc.) and the wedges are driven just hard enough to be snug. (Driving them too hard may split the handle.) When the glue has cooled/dried, a sharp knife is used to trim the excess flush with the handle. This type of attachment was more than strong enough, and easily repaired or the handle replaced if needed in the future. The tar or wax "glue" was partly to hold the wedges in place, but mainly to seal the hole from water getting in and rusting the tang.
Notes:
Birch tar was used in the Nordic areas. Birch wood was heated in a closed container and the tars collected and reduced in the bottom to a pitchlike consistency. These made good glues, as well as use for a wood and leather preservative. The tars also had medicinal value on livestock and humans as an antiseptic and hook/foot care. In the rest of the world, pine tar pitch was more readily available. If looking for birch tar, don't buy Birch Tar Oil online. That is usually a fragrance oil. It is not the same. Outside of Scandinavia, it may be hard to even find actual birch tar. What most folks use today is pin tar pitch. A small block will last a long time. It is heated to melt it and used like a hot glue. Diluted with turpentine and BLO it makes a good traditionally wood and leather treatment. Pine tar is just pitch and some solvent (usually turpentine). If you find thick pine tar in a can, that will work. The solvent will evaporate from the joint slowly and leave the pitch as a glue. The thin pine tar in cans doesn't have much actual pitch in it and won't work.
Other early craftsmen and artisans around the world used pitch to fashion everything from weapons to furniture until hot-melt hide glues were developed.
A modern material that works even better than pitch is the hot glue sticks and glue-guns used for crafts. The sticks come in black. It can be used as would melted pitch glue to hold the wedges tight and seal the tang hole from moisture. Since the look is very close to the traditional method, I feel that this hack is not cheating.
Many Japanese knives have the handles installed with black hot glue. They fill the tang hole about half full with the melted glue and then warm the tang to around 250°F with a heat gun and insert it in the glue. The run out is wiped off with a popsicle stick. Once cooled for several hours, the excess is trimmed away and cleaned up with denatured alcohol or acetone. To remove a handle fitted this way, simply heat the knife in the oven to 200°F/90°C and the handle will pull off the blade.
If making traditional puukko and Nordic knives and birch burl, masur birch, or karelian birch aren't available, use a durable wood like maple. Curly maple is a favorite of mine for these type handles. While a modern version would be done with stabilized wood, a traditional version would be done with unstabilized wood. treating the handle by rubbing in BLO and pine tar will make the curl show and seal the wood. After drying well, buff it with a soft rag. It can be left that way or a finish applied.
Finish techniques and materials are a matter of new vs old methods. Modern handles can be done with hardening oils like Danish, tung, tru-oil, etc. More traditional finishes are Boiled or untreated linseed and similar oils can be applied, dried, and hand or machine polished.
In doing some looking aroumd, I found this site. Not really a tutorial site, but some great info and photos:
I decided to write a simple tutorial with some historical data for you.
The wedge method uses wedges applied to both sides of the blade tang. Some sort of glue is usually used, by many knives were only wedged and the handle held by friction.. Before modern glues, primitive glues like tars were either used alone, or mixed with fine powdered clay or wood dust. Other glues were beeswax, hot melt hide glues, and various "wood" glues.
The tang hole was opened up by whatever method was available. It early days, it was burned in with the actual blade tang or a similar size/shape piece of metal used as a burn-in tool. Using a burn-in tool was the best method and the metal could be heated as hot as you need and as often as needed without worry about ruining the temper of the blade. It also allowed use of cheaper iron instead of valuable steel.
With more modern methods and tools, the hole was often drilled as a round hole. Sometimes, the round hole was made to fit the tang by splitting a round dowel and using is as a wedge like filler on both sides ... as in the Japanese method.
Other times, the the basic hole is shaped to fit the tang with a handle hook or broach saw. A handle hook looks like a crochet hook with a single sharp hooked tooth on the end. The hook is used to scrape out the hole and make it fit the tang. A broach saw looks like a thin drywall saw. It is used like the hook, but works faster. Both are used as a set of tools to shape the tang hole. Most folks make their own hook and broach from steel and harden them, but you can buy them, too.
Once the hole is cleaned out the blade often rattles around in it. This is snugged up by long thin strips of wood slid down the holes alongside the tang. The strips should be just snug enough to push in and out with slight pressure. Once the strips are shaved to fit right, they are trimmed to be about 1" shorter than the tang hole depth, leaving room at the opening of the hole for the wedges. To close the opening, two wedge shaped pieces of wood are made that fit snug and are a little fatter at the wide end than will fit. a glue is applied (tar, beeswax, hide, wood glue, etc.) and the wedges are driven just hard enough to be snug. (Driving them too hard may split the handle.) When the glue has cooled/dried, a sharp knife is used to trim the excess flush with the handle. This type of attachment was more than strong enough, and easily repaired or the handle replaced if needed in the future. The tar or wax "glue" was partly to hold the wedges in place, but mainly to seal the hole from water getting in and rusting the tang.
Notes:
Birch tar was used in the Nordic areas. Birch wood was heated in a closed container and the tars collected and reduced in the bottom to a pitchlike consistency. These made good glues, as well as use for a wood and leather preservative. The tars also had medicinal value on livestock and humans as an antiseptic and hook/foot care. In the rest of the world, pine tar pitch was more readily available. If looking for birch tar, don't buy Birch Tar Oil online. That is usually a fragrance oil. It is not the same. Outside of Scandinavia, it may be hard to even find actual birch tar. What most folks use today is pin tar pitch. A small block will last a long time. It is heated to melt it and used like a hot glue. Diluted with turpentine and BLO it makes a good traditionally wood and leather treatment. Pine tar is just pitch and some solvent (usually turpentine). If you find thick pine tar in a can, that will work. The solvent will evaporate from the joint slowly and leave the pitch as a glue. The thin pine tar in cans doesn't have much actual pitch in it and won't work.
Other early craftsmen and artisans around the world used pitch to fashion everything from weapons to furniture until hot-melt hide glues were developed.
A modern material that works even better than pitch is the hot glue sticks and glue-guns used for crafts. The sticks come in black. It can be used as would melted pitch glue to hold the wedges tight and seal the tang hole from moisture. Since the look is very close to the traditional method, I feel that this hack is not cheating.
Many Japanese knives have the handles installed with black hot glue. They fill the tang hole about half full with the melted glue and then warm the tang to around 250°F with a heat gun and insert it in the glue. The run out is wiped off with a popsicle stick. Once cooled for several hours, the excess is trimmed away and cleaned up with denatured alcohol or acetone. To remove a handle fitted this way, simply heat the knife in the oven to 200°F/90°C and the handle will pull off the blade.
If making traditional puukko and Nordic knives and birch burl, masur birch, or karelian birch aren't available, use a durable wood like maple. Curly maple is a favorite of mine for these type handles. While a modern version would be done with stabilized wood, a traditional version would be done with unstabilized wood. treating the handle by rubbing in BLO and pine tar will make the curl show and seal the wood. After drying well, buff it with a soft rag. It can be left that way or a finish applied.
Finish techniques and materials are a matter of new vs old methods. Modern handles can be done with hardening oils like Danish, tung, tru-oil, etc. More traditional finishes are Boiled or untreated linseed and similar oils can be applied, dried, and hand or machine polished.
In doing some looking aroumd, I found this site. Not really a tutorial site, but some great info and photos:
amazing knowledge dude the split round dowel is also a really great idea makes so much sense. I can also attest to the strength of regular old hot glue especially when used as a filler material between 2 interlocking parts that juuuuuust dont have a tight enough interlock. i use it all the time on tough use case soldering projects and 3d printed stuff. if it will hold 80lb crossbow bits together it will hold a knife in a handle 10000%. if in the future u need to take something apart 10-20 minutes of being dowsed in alchohol (i use a spray bottle to not be too wastful) will make it a good bit easier to disassemble. your parts will still be held together by the friction of the rubbery glue and the tight fit around stuff but the adhesion will be totally gone.