Puzzled over 0550 scales....

rayban

rayban

Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
2,738
OK, so the knife is a Hinderer design...which means he had a voice in the scales design as well.
I don't like the pattern myself....I will be replacing it.
But if Hinderer had a hand in the design of the scale pattern (I"m assuming now..), why would he rush out and make a whole line of different colored replacement scales....that look nothing like the stock ones.......it's like he knew the buyer would be beating a path to buy them.
Why not offer them with that new and improved pattern to begin with?
I don't get it, someone please explain.:confused:
 
The original scales or pattern anyway arent his. Long story short it is about money. A stock 550 is great, but you wanna be different it will cost ya. Saves from having to make different model #s and all that bs. Rick helped zt design it. If you buy a Hinderer you can pick your color. I don't get the 560 and 561 myself. Hey whatever I'm getting od when it comes out for the 560.
 
It looks like a very smart move on his part. $65 ea = lots of $s. If Kershaw had shipped them with nice scales fewer would purchased his. :p

With the price that high there should be room for someone to make a very nice scale for say $35 to $40 and still make money.

I have one of his Frag scales I got on ebay for $35 that is about all it is worth IMO. $2 or $3 of G10 and some CNC time plus 15% or 20% profit and some overhead should not add up to $65 plus shipping. But if he is very busy the high price may be the best way to keep the after market scales from hurting his XM production.
 
My thoughts, please feel free to disagree. It is about money but not how some may believe. The G10 is CNC machined. The cost to run the machines and pay operators a fair wage pushes the costs higher than a larger more automated production facility would experience. They have to not produce one item in order to produce another. So, as highly demanded as Hinderers are, some time (which is limited and expensive) was alotted to produce ZT scales in both XM and Frag.
All that said, it is nice to have options and being able to personalize your knife is a lovely thing. Everyone has somewhat different tastes. Thank goodness!
Also, they are ZTs and not Hinderers. To make that more obvious to most-perhaps that was factored in when deciding to use the scales they use.
 
I think the three previous replies are on the right track, so most of what I have to say will just be reframing or building on the points they've made.

To begin, I'm not really seeing what makes the Hinderer scales "improved", as the OP claims, as compared to the stock ones. Both the Hinderer and the stock ZT scales are well-made G-10 scales with good, functional texturing patterns. The only difference is that the Hinderer scales are offered in different colors and textures. For some people, the Hinderer scales may be an improvement in that they prefer the aesthetics or feel, but for others it may the other way around or a matter about which they're indifferent.

So it's quite bizarre and uncharitable to insinuate, as the OP seems to be, that Rick somehow intentionally designed the 0550's stock scales to be unappealing so that he could sell a bunch of aftermarket scales for the knife. They're a good, basic scale, and the degree to which they're appealing or not will vary from person to person. It's an effort to offer ZT 0550/0551 owners the same customization options (in terms of scale color/pattern) that one has with Rick's XM folders. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
rayban said:
OK, so the knife is a Hinderer design...which means he had a voice in the scales design as well.
I don't like the pattern myself....I will be replacing it.
But if Hinderer had a hand in the design of the scale pattern (I"m assuming now..), why would he rush out and make a whole line of different colored replacement scales....that look nothing like the stock ones.......
Click to expand...
Oh I don't know...maybe to give buyers options?

Why not offer them with that new and improved pattern to begin with?
Click to expand...
Explain to me how it's improved? Why are choices bad?
I don't get it, someone please explain.:confused:
Click to expand...
I'm unsure I get your post...sounds like an odd scale conspiracy theory.
 
Thomas W said:
Explain to me how it's improved? Why are choices bad?
I
Click to expand...

It's my opinion that the after-market scales are an improvement over the ones out of the box.
My main thought was why the factory couldn't offer the choices...I simple don't like the stock scales, that's alright, isn't it?
I got some constructive feed-back from the others, and rather than reacting to your defensive posture, I'll just end it here.
 
My 0551 scale is my favorite stock scale ever! But there are people who hate it. To each his own
402675_225778100846651_100002433890009_474806_711890492_n.jpg
I know, I just keep putting this pic everywhere. I just love it!
 
If they offered scale choices and color choices, the MSRP would have to be higher to offset the stocking, machining, assembly, etc. of different color and scales. You would be paying for it regardless of how you look at it. I appreciate them offering it in the configuration it is in and keeping the price down.
 
Personally I like the pattern on my 0550. The fact that we have choices of different scales is a plus over other manufacturers that don't provide other choices. As far as someone thinking that the frag pattern is an improvement is totally subjective and up to personal opinion. I feel that the stock scales are very functional as well as aesthetically appealing but that's just my 2 cents.
 
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The only 550-like scales I like better are the stock ones on my 551. I like the 551 over the 550 anyway - so much so, I bought a second 551. My pusher/enabler had them both displayed at the same price - to me, it was a no-brainer - I made the right choice. Great knife - as-is. Now, would I replace my OEM scales with $65-$100 units? Not a chance. That's money that can go towards a real knife. But - I am glad the choice is there for those who need it.

Off topic a bit, but... what is with the proliferation of pink handgun grips and rifle stocks? It just seems weird. Well, I am glad that those who need it have a choice!

Stainz
 
spydusse said:
My 0551 scale is my favorite stock scale ever! But there are people who hate it. To each his own
402675_225778100846651_100002433890009_474806_711890492_n.jpg
I know, I just keep putting this pic everywhere. I just love it!
Click to expand...
I agree, given the choice, I'd pick these.
 
rayban said:
It's my opinion that the after-market scales are an improvement over the ones out of the box.
My main thought was why the factory couldn't offer the choices...I simple don't like the stock scales, that's alright, isn't it?
I got some constructive feed-back from the others, and rather than reacting to your defensive posture, I'll just end it here.
Click to expand...
I'll try to be tender here for you since you seem to be taking a bit of a sensitive posture.

Your opinion and dislike for the stock scale sounds like it's sight based. Aesthetically it's just not doing it for you. You want improved looks?

rayban said:
I agree, given the choice, I'd pick these.
Click to expand...
Case in point.
 
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I have the 0550 and 0551 and both of their stock g10 scales are excellent. They do exactly what they are meant to do, add traction to the knife. It would be impossible and unreasonable to think that they could do a texture on the factory scale that would appeal to everyone. IMO Rick is making his aftermarket 0550/0551 scales to give us options, personally I think that's awesome which is why I have a few myself. Did I NEED them to improve the knife "functionally", no, but I like the various colors. I met Rick at Shot this year, and from talking to him I can tell you he is a very humble intelligent guy. The above statements about him making aftermarket scales JUST for profit reasons are absurd. That is his business though and he deserves the right to make money and provide for his own. We should be grateful for him manufacturing them, no one is forcing you to buy them or the 0550/0551.

On the CNC side, I have personally taken a CNC/ CAD/ CAM class and it's not as easy as putting
in a piece of material and pressing go on the Mill. The setup procedure is rather time consuming and the cost to run the mill and the price of tools arent cheap. Those who think its an easy/ inexpensive process are talking out of their ass. Enough said about that.
 
rayban said:
Why not offer them with that new and improved pattern to begin with?
I don't get it, someone please explain.:confused:
Click to expand...

"New and improved" is all a matter of perspective.

Example: I, personally, would like just about every knife to have bright orange anodized aluminium scales. To me, that would be an improvement over the black G10 you see everywhere. However, I recognize that I am in the minority there and that on the whole, most folks would not consider bright orange aluminium an 'improvement' over existing offerings.

The company has to put out one design that will appeal to the majority and remain cost effective. It would be nice if I could call up kershaw and say "go ahead and slap some custom one of a kind 3D textured anodized glow in the dark cocobolo scales on that knife for me", but to me it wouldn't seem feasible for a production company to provide that kind of service on a one-off basis.
 
Hi rayban -

Not much of a mystery to me.

Baskin Robbin's makes vanilla. A lot of people like that flavor.

Others like variety.

People like to customize their knives, and will pay the extra money to do so.

best

mqqn
 
Easy question needs an easy answer. ZT came up with a scale that they liked and thought would sell, but different than Rick's. Rick (knowing there would be a lot of buyers of the 550) decided to sell aftermarket scales.

It's silly to complain, if that's what you are doing (not too sure). This is one of the very few knives that actually has an easy to buy aftermarket scale.
 
rayban said:
It's my opinion that the after-market scales are an improvement over the ones out of the box.
My main thought was why the factory couldn't offer the choices...I simple don't like the stock scales, that's alright, isn't it?
I got some constructive feed-back from the others, and rather than reacting to your defensive posture, I'll just end it here.
Click to expand...

Rick -

We created the texture for both the 0550 and 0551 in-house. It was our first collaboration with Rick Hinderer, and at the time, these knives were the closest thing to a production XM-18 that existed. We opted to go with a scale pattern that was a little easier to machine, which translated to a lower cost for the end user. The idea that Rick would offer custom scales was an afterthought, and there was never any conscious attempt to "dumb down" the stock scale - we just made one that was faster to machine and fit the price point. If you look at the new 0560 model, we used a pattern that is much closer to Rick's original texture pattern, but the complexity of the machining adds cost to the knife, which is reflected in the price.

Rick Hinderer has offered replacement scales for his XM-18's for a number of years, so when we created the 0550, he wanted to offer replacement scales for it as well. A lot of people really enjoy the "mix and match" idea of being able to choose their own colr and a different texture pattern. As a factory, we could offer more options for texture and colors, but have chosen not to do so at this time - mainly to streamline the process for us.
 
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