Quality Control at Buck

OK- I'm gonna be stoopid enough to throw my hat in here.
Both the Vantage and the 110 are excellent knives. Both could be said to be the best. But there's a choice here. It's like choosing McDonalds over Arby's. Both cost about the same, both have good food, and there will be a diehard fanbase for each. Then there's people like me who will go to both. There is a diehard fanbase for the 110/112 series, same with the Vantage line. There's also the people who have both and use both in their EDC rotation.
my 2cents.
 
There's plenty of room for both, that's why they are both sucessful. One person's personal dislikes and predjudices shouldn't influence anyone else's choice.
 
Plumberdv said:
There's plenty of room for both, that's why they are both sucessful. One person's personal dislikes and predjudices shouldn't influence anyone else's choice.
Click to expand...

I really don't think either BG or my self are trying influence the other to like the knife the other carries. I think this one is a draw.

Just one question BG, Do you own a Vantage???
 
No, I don't own a Vantage. I'm actually trying to weed out all liner-locks and S30V from my holdings.

All I have left in liners/S30V are some Kalinga Pro Folders (I will hold onto these as they are discontinued--for real--and already worth 50% more than when I bought them a couple years ago) and a 179 China Mayo with the good 420HC steel (one tough knife that I think may actually last as long as a 110).

I know liner-locks have improved, but I think the inherent deficiencies in the design and the synthetic handle materials will always pose some problems and never match the rock-solid 110 design and material (especially the old ebony).

And anyone who has read here for more than a few days can tell you I don't care what anybody else wants to buy.

More good stuff for me if you disagree with me.

:)
 
If anybody has the misconception that charcoal diamond wood isn't real wood is wrong, just take the scales off of a diamond wood vantage and turn them over and you'll see that they are real wood. Synthetic materials such as G10 or micarta are made to out last the natural materials. I've even seen plastic/delrin/lucite ect. last for decades. Some statements just don't hold water. Put a piece of synthetic material out side next to a piece of wood and see which last longer in the elements.

This would be a great experiment. Who wants to donate the next two to three years and a couple of knives?
 
Guess we need that torture test!!!

I checked Youtube and didn't find any......I'm surprised.

:)
 
I prefer synthetics for an EDC, and natural for dress/display. Depends for hunting. I like my 110, and I also will carry my Diamondback Guide every once in a while (discontinued AFAIK, prolly should stop using it)
I will agree that the linerlock has some problems, one of which was fixed by the CRKT LAWKS system... But IMO you really shouldn't need a lock on an EDC knife anyway, if you are beating on a knife hard enough to get a quality liner/framelock to fail, you should have been using a fixed blade.
 
Oh bother. Might as well stick in my 6¢.

2¢ I like lockbacks better than linerlocks. Not because lockbacks are more secure, but because I can close a lockback one-handed without putting my fingers close to the edge of the closing blade. I can't do that with a linerlock. That doesn't mean I don't own linerlocks. I just don't own as many as I do lockbacks.

2¢ Linerlocks get their bad reputation because they can be made cheaply, so they get put on cheaply made knives. I said "cheaply", not "inexpensive". Cheaply made linerlocks tend to be poorly made. A well made linerlock is secure. I poorly made one, not so much.

2¢ To get back to the original question of Quality Control at Buck. I find the lower end Buck knives that I like sometimes are not quite perfect. I've bought several 301s which had rivet heads protruding. My Vantage Pro blade is not centered in the handle in the closed position. Some of my Bucks came less than sharp. So I have found several minor cosmetic issues, but never an issue which would make the knife unusable or unsafe. Since I buy knives to use, rather than for pocket jewelry, these issues have never bothered me. Howsowever, as they say, Your Mileage May Vary.
 
How did a thread about quality control on vanatage series turn into a contest between durability of classics like 110 and more modern designs?

Redsquid: if centering is an issue to you and scratching up the frame or the blade, send it back. The guys at buck are helpful and you're not the first one to send them a vanatage with centering issues.
You bought the knife with an excellent waranty for life. You should make use of this.
 
McGrain said:
How did a thread about quality control on vanatage series turn into a contest between durability of classics like 110 and more modern designs?
Redsquid: if centering is an issue to you and scratching up the frame or the blade, send it back. The guys at buck are helpful and you're not the first one to send them a vanatage with centering issues.
You bought the knife with an excellent waranty for life. You should make use of this.
Click to expand...

Happens all the time. Not just about the knives themselves but with one particular steel. It really was all started in this thread with post 10. Typical.
 
ugh .... i run an home for lost and un loved s30v blades and any lost or un loved buck
here they recive love oil cleaning and sharpening if needed...
and if they are espley good knives they will be sent on a holladay to that
well known spa in the north west usa!
there they will be revived in body and soul
and return to their loveing home ready to be the best they can be!!!
 
A little update: I never made any adjustments, and while the blade still looks like it might rub against the liner, so far I see no scuffs on the blade.

I carry this thing every day, and I will probably take it backpacking too, since it is so light.

:)
 
Jumping in just for the entertainment, as lots of us do.....I can't disagree with anyones statements. I pretty quick decided to buy a Vantage in person, in a box not in plastic. I open said box and look at knife. If it meets what sounds like all you guys same quality controls I pay for it.
In the 'BIG' box stores you may not find a box knife, only plastic packed. I have a small select, paperstone and dymondwood. I carry the shiny dymondwood when I might talk about my Buck obsession to others. I carry the paperstone in the outdoors and shop. The select is in the door of the truck. If I have pants with a watch pocket I put in one of the 309 elk scales also. The swedish steel sharpens very nicely and I can get a mirror edge pretty easily. I really like the way my small vantages sit low in my pockets when clipped in.
I never carry a 110, go ahead vote me off forum, but I do carry my Shedua 112 or my Selector when hunting stuff bigger than a squirrel. Squirrels get a 313. As I have said before zombies get a 119. I make firewood with a hatchet and saw. So far no one has called me to be on survival show where I need "only one knife'. My personal experience is that the small vantages are good knives for my needs, but I pick them.

Life is to short to unhappy, do what you must to be so......legal stuff that is.... 300Bucks
 
Last edited:
mbjannusch said:
The Vantage would suit anybody fine, it a matter of getting use to something different, Sometimes it's hard to break away from the norm and try something new BG. I have no hesitation in saying that the Vantage is just as much of a tank as a 110.
Click to expand...

Hrmmm....

I find that these sorts of discussions are largely driven out of our differing aesthetic tastes. Once I find something that I like or dislike aesthetically, the technical justifications are easy to mount in a debate club sort of way. I think there's a big difference between the 110/112 family and the Vantage family in terms of aesthetics and that's a good thing because different people like different things. It's a lager vs ale sort of thing. In this way, a Vantage would NOT suit anybody just fine, just as a 112 would NOT suit anybody just fine.

Let me try to make the point by pulling in another pair of knives not at all related to Bucks. I always have either a Buck or an Opinel on me. I've got a work bud who always carries a Kershaw Ken Onion of some sort. At the bar, he tries to convince me of the technical superiority of his Leek compared to my Opinel #9.

"Look, I can open it with one hand.", says he.

"Look, I can do the same thing with my Opinel.", says I.

"Look, my knife locks in the closed position."

"Look, so does my Opinel."

"Look, my Kershaw is light."

"Look, my Opinel is lighter."

"Look, my Leek is beautiful."

Stifling a gag reflex, "Um look dude, my Opinel is prettier."

And that's the thing. There's not a single technical argument he can mount that will sway me and it goes in the other direction too. I hate the Leek. Just hate it. And he's never going to carry an Opinel. (shrug)

The technical distinctions between the Vantage line and the Buck lock backs is similar. IMO, they just don't matter compared to the aesthetic differences. Best not to debate matters of beauty.
 
I have a buck Csar, and that thing is TIGHT!!!! no quality control prolems there. But... buck likes to have all there liner locks engage in the middle of the blade rather then to the side closest to the liner lock, seems like it wouldn't last as long as others that do engage early. But considering I have a lifetime warranty that buck is known for, I will not worry about it because this thing locks up SOLID!
 
100_1869.jpg
[/IMG] Here is my new Vantage small. I also have the large Vantage and a few 110's. All are great. My small Vantage also needed centering. I loosened up the scales and retightened little by little 'til centered. No biggie. As far as being sharp it was however I change all my knives to convex so it is now better IMHO. Bottom line is be it a 110, Vantage or any other Buck I'll take it. And if you don't want yours just send them to me guys.:D:D:D
 
Last edited:
pinnah said:
Hrmmm....

I find that these sorts of discussions are largely driven out of our differing aesthetic tastes. Once I find something that I like or dislike aesthetically, the technical justifications are easy to mount in a debate club sort of way. I think there's a big difference between the 110/112 family and the Vantage family in terms of aesthetics and that's a good thing because different people like different things. It's a lager vs ale sort of thing. In this way, a Vantage would NOT suit anybody just fine, just as a 112 would NOT suit anybody just fine.

Let me try to make the point by pulling in another pair of knives not at all related to Bucks. I always have either a Buck or an Opinel on me. I've got a work bud who always carries a Kershaw Ken Onion of some sort. At the bar, he tries to convince me of the technical superiority of his Leek compared to my Opinel #9.

"Look, I can open it with one hand.", says he.

"Look, I can do the same thing with my Opinel.", says I.

"Look, my knife locks in the closed position."

"Look, so does my Opinel."

"Look, my Kershaw is light."

"Look, my Opinel is lighter."

"Look, my Leek is beautiful."

Stifling a gag reflex, "Um look dude, my Opinel is prettier."

And that's the thing. There's not a single technical argument he can mount that will sway me and it goes in the other direction too. I hate the Leek. Just hate it. And he's never going to carry an Opinel. (shrug)

The technical distinctions between the Vantage line and the Buck lock backs is similar. IMO, they just don't matter compared to the aesthetic differences. Best not to debate matters of beauty.
Click to expand...

Well put. I don't think I would ever get an Opinel, just based on how it looks. I do like the looks of the Leek, though. :) Here's pinnah looking at the Leek: :barf:

Al Mar folders are really good knives, no doubt, but I don't like the way they look, either.

My Buck 112 and my Vantage I like, aesthetically, about the same. I no longer carry the 112 because it weighs a ton and it's too long according to Chicago city ordinance.

I bought the 112 about 32 years ago, for my Boy Scout and High Adventure Explorer trips, and it has priceless sentimental value. I guess that's off topic, but oh well.
 
Last edited:
redsquid2 said:
I bought the 112 about 32 years ago, for my Boy Scout and High Adventure Explorer trips, and it has priceless sentimental value. I guess that's off topic, but oh well.
Click to expand...

As long as I'm being sentimental, I will mention that I bought my 112 at a place called Gibson's Discount Center, in Lawton, Oklahoma. I carved my initials on the leather pouch. I think it was $21.00, pouch included. Has the price gone up since then?
 
In general, I'm happy with Buck's QC.

I've had only a couple that needed attention, and given that I have enough Bucks that I have lost count, having two or three go back for this or that tweak isn't bad.

My Sirius was the only one that actually had to be replaced. Oh, wait, no . . . I also had a 112 EcoLite replaced, yeah, nearly forgot about that. So, two replacements. Out of, what? More than I've bothered to count?

I've exchanged one (Vantage, small) because I had difficulty with the flipper (not the knife's fault, it's my arthritis) and paid the difference to move up to the large. That doesn't count as a QC issue. I have a 301 that has just the slightest rub between the sheepsfoot and spey blades; and I don't care, I'm keepin' it. I have a Vantage Avid that's a little off center, but it doesn't rub, it locks up tight, and it's smooth and sharp; I'm keepin' that, too. I have a couple of 303s and a 55 that have a rivet burr, but that's covered by the "FB" marking -- I bought them that way, knowing they were blems.

A couple of words
regarding factory
blems
------------------
I started out buying blems because you could get a good user for less
cash. One day, as I was explaining to someone what a "blem" knife was,
I had to point out that you can't buy them in stores, you can only get
them at the factory. From that moment on, all my blems took on
added value. Every one of those is a local purchase. Can't mail order
them. Can't buy them on line from Buck, or from any other retailer. If I
pick up two of my 110s, I might know which one I bought at the
factory. If one says "FB" however, I know that's where I got it.
That may not matter to anyone else. It matters to me.

So . . . where was I . . . ?

Oh, yeah, aesthetics.

I own Kershaws, Opinels, Cases, Bucks, and a few EKA folders. I like the Kershaws, but not in a "everywhere, all the time" way. I like the Opinels, but I've never really been able to consistently EDC them. Maybe it's just me, but I find them a little too round and a little too fiddly to open and close (remember, arthritis). The case knives are seriously aesthetic, and I carry them happily. But the Bucks? There's a greater variety, and Buck really hit the practical and aesthetic sweet spot with the Vantage; light, thin, easy to hold, easy to open and close, non-threatening, useful for all kinds of common things. Lots of pocket time. The EKA folders are an acquired taste. Well made, sharp, easy to use, but appealing to a more "out North" aesthetic.

I'll carry a Kershaw over an Opinel (a flatter handle might change that), and a Buck over either of those. But we're talking specific models most of the time. I'll carry a Leek where I wouldn't carry a Kershaw 3120, simply because of weight, but I'll carry the 3120 (Kershaw's 112 equivalent) over the Leek for a robust outdoor piece. Generally, I'll carry a Buck over the Kershaw, but it's specifically the Vantage over the Leek/Chive/Scallion. The 3120 ("Black Gulch") and the 112 are a toss-up, or at least they were until the 3120 starting showing up stamped "China." I still carry my (Japan) 3120, but the 112 sees more pocket time, especially now that it's lighter.

I'll carry a Case Stockman over the 301 for the aesthetics, but I'll take the Buck 313 Muskrat over both of them. That's one sweet knife.

When practical rules, and the job warrants it, I'll take the Needs Work over everything else. I just don't have anything else that quite fills that bill.

Mostly, though, aesthetics matter.

And there's more to aesthetics than just "pretty." A blade that suits the work, presents well, has an effective and efficient shape has an aesthetic that goes beyond the bounds of "oh, how cute," and my appreciation of the "beauty" in a blade has much to do with how easy it is to use and how well it works. I have one knife that I will never carry, and I bought it because of its exotic look and sculpting. It's a magnetically closed knife, and it is suck and fail from a usability point of view. It holds no further aesthetic value for me.


Buck, more than any other manufacturer, seems to "get" what people will use and come to value for the "beauty" in the quality and usability.

Call that "practical aesthetics" if you like.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top