quality control with knives made in U.S.A.

R

rprocter

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i recently purchased 4 american made knives from 4 different manufacturers through 4 different, but large, well known internet knife stores. 3 of these knives were defective. i will not specify which companies or models as this sample size is far too small to draw any conclusions and i don't wish to "bad-mouth" anyone. the cheapest knife was $80 U.S. none of them has any marking indicating they are seconds.
i can think of 3 possible explanations: 1) bad luck; 2) quality control in U.S.made knives is poor; 3) manufacturers grade their knives and send the best to "physical" stores where the customer will handle and examine the knife before buying and send the rest to internet businesses knowing that the majority of customers won't bother to return them. (not as far out as it may sound; it is true for skis)
i contacted all 3 of the manufacturers and they all said to return the knife for "repair", which i have done. however this involves considerable time and expense and as a Canadian, i may be hit a second time with 13% sales tax. (should not be charged a second time, but disagreeing with Canada Customs is not effective). also, Canada has few knife stores and they are all in major cities and don't carry much range in their stock. for a rural person like myself, the drive to vancouver is 11 hrs. and 5 mountain passes away, meaning potential for terrble roads 7 months of the year, so not a good option.
hence, i would like to hear the experience of other forum members before i purchase any more knives on line.
 
This is not typical of my experience - I've had good luck with online retailers (except Botach). I seem to get all my defective knives on ebay.

And jgarth, are you serious - you don't know an M.D. is a doctor?
 
I've noticed mixed quality from American knife companies too, both with pricey and inexpensive knives. I guess they figure no one cares...

For the most consistent quality, buy Japanese. And it's rare to get a German knife that's totally crummy.

Anyhoo, this forum is just the place to "bad mouth" sub-par knife manufactures. Let loose if you want to. The resulting conversations will be a big hint as to whether or not you were merely unlucky.

My experience:
Case is mixed quality. Beautiful knives, but not always well fit.
Bear MGC, good fit and finish, but I've seen some amazing failures from actually using their products.
Buck, usually very good. Especially their fixed blades and model 110.
Canal Street Cutlery: 50/50. One was a little disappointing, especially for the price; one was great.
Camillus: definitely mixed quality. Some stinkers, some very nice products.
Schrade, before they went out of business, was also a mixed bag. The Old Timers were usually pretty good and often great. Some of their other lines were terrible.
Queen: bought one, had to send back for repair, but they wouldn't fix because the model was discontinued.

-Bob
 
Its all the US's fault. Everything made here is crap.


... at least thats what the car companies what you to believe. I got a 190,000 miles on my Ford saying otherwise. But as for knives, some of the best (not nicest, best. As in most functional) have been made in the USA. This includes my current EDC (spydie) and an old favorite whom I'd have no problem going back to (Junglee). Don't know about any other makers, or Junglee these days for that matter (havent had that knife in at least 4 years). BUt I can only speak for what I've had. Maybe 80's era American cars sucked, but USA number 1 -_-

:p
 
This includes my current EDC (spydie)...
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Nearly all of my Spyderco knives have vertical blade play when opened. The Q (American) isn't bad; the Endura (Japan) should be better; the Ladybug (Japan) is miserably loose; the First Generation BRK Native (American, made by Camillus) is terribly loose; and the VG-10 Native III (Japan) is just a tad loose.

None are as well-fit as my Benchmade 551, an excellent American-made knife.

-Bob
 
I'd also like to toss out the name "Bark River Knife and Tool" as an American company with very high quality.

Northwoods, Ek (older Effingham knife), Blackjack (Effingham), and Marbles are other American brands that I have been very happy with.

-Bob
 
Buck268 said:
as for knives, some of the best (not nicest, best. As in most functional) have been made in the USA. This includes my current EDC (spydie) and an old favorite whom I'd have no problem going back to (Junglee). Don't know about any other makers, or Junglee these days for that matter (havent had that knife in at least 4 years).
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Buck268, Are you sure that your Junglee is made in the US? Mine was made in Japan. I thought that all the Junglees were made in Japan. I could be wrong, but that was my understanding. I just know that my Junglee Marshall was made in Seki City. A nice AUS10 blade, too.


Bob W, My Japanese Native III has no blade play at all. Neither does my Japanese Delica. But I've read a couple of threads where guys went to Wallmart and felt they had to pick and choose among American Natives in order to get one with no play. My American made Benchmade has so little play that unless I consciously try to rock it back and forth with a fair amount of force, I do not notice any. Note: both my Native III and my Benchmade were bought off the net, sight unseen. My Delica was from a brick and mortar, but I just grabbed one. I didn't stop and inspect each one.


rprocter, I'll pick explanation number two.
As a technical person who works in support of factory operations, I have studied quality systems. IMO American quality systems in general still lag behind those of the Japanese. (A 25 year head start with the teachings of Deming will do that.) Corporate America talks about quality. But their true focus is on the next quarter's profits and pleasing the stock analysts. In general, corporate America still sees quality as being in opposition to profits. Deming taught that quality supports profits, but that it takes time to build the flow. YES there are exceptions to this. But on average I think that Japanese quality systems are superior to those in American corporations.

But I think there is a different story to be found in non-corporate operations. There you still find that the focus is on the product and not on meeting the stock analysts' expectations for factors that really don't support the business, but are the items the analysts in their infinite wisdom have decided are important.

Sorry guys, "quality systems in manufacturing" is one of my buttons. :o
Push a button and get an oration.
 
rprocter said:
i recently purchased 4 american made knives from 4 different manufacturers through 4 different, but large, well known internet knife stores. 3 of these knives were defective. i will not specify which companies or models as this sample size is far too small to draw any conclusions and i don't wish to "bad-mouth" anyone. the cheapest knife was $80 U.S. none of them has any marking indicating they are seconds.
i can think of 3 possible explanations: 1) bad luck; 2) quality control in U.S.made knives is poor; 3) manufacturers grade their knives and send the best to "physical" stores where the customer will handle and examine the knife before buying and send the rest to internet businesses knowing that the majority of customers won't bother to return them. (not as far out as it may sound; it is true for skis)
i contacted all 3 of the manufacturers and they all said to return the knife for "repair", which i have done. however this involves considerable time and expense and as a Canadian, i may be hit a second time with 13% sales tax. (should not be charged a second time, but disagreeing with Canada Customs is not effective). also, Canada has few knife stores and they are all in major cities and don't carry much range in their stock. for a rural person like myself, the drive to vancouver is 11 hrs. and 5 mountain passes away, meaning potential for terrble roads 7 months of the year, so not a good option.
hence, i would like to hear the experience of other forum members before i purchase any more knives on line.
Click to expand...

Don't post something like this then leave us hanging !
Spill the beans.......was one Ontario?
 
knarfeng, i appreciate your insight into Q.C., however the brands i am referring to have not been mentioned yet, so i feel at this point naming brands might be a disservice to all, including putting off a potential buyer from getting what might be a great knife despite my single experience.
one of them i did post here on a previous thread re: liner lock. the "perfect" one is a spyderco military BG 42 which i bought as a gift for a logger buddy who plowed me out from 3' of snow with his skidder. i do have an ontario rat 3 which arrived not well sharpened but this is not what i am referring to as i can remedy that myself and i think it is a great little utility knife.
does anyone know of a knife store with a large selection in Spokane ?
 
If your sample stinks, tell us what company and what is wrong with the knife. Or at least send it in to be fixed and then tell us if they fixed the problem
 
Broos,
I know what an M.D. is .... my younger brother is a real MEDICAL DOCTOR (MD. or M.D.).
He did NOT enter his profile as an M.D.
No real medical doctor would ever use small letters (m.d.), and his post(s) definitely do not equate to the level of a medical doctor.
JGarth.
 
It is foolish to blame quality control problems on any country at large. If you have quality issues with knives, blame the company, not the country.
 
knarfeng said:
Buck268, Are you sure that your Junglee is made in the US? Mine was made in Japan. I thought that all the Junglees were made in Japan. I could be wrong, but that was my understanding. I just know that my Junglee Marshall was made in Seki City. A nice AUS10 blade, too.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm very sure. Although I don't have it, or its packaging any more, it came in a nice little spyderco'esque box, with a nice plush leather case, a hex wrench for all the screws and a user guide/booklet about warrenty, how to care for an sharpen it, and how it was made in the USA, AUS8, 57 or 58rC, etc etc. It was actually a very nice knice at the time and I only hope they still make them as nice; Junglee Sahara Jr. I have noticed it costs about half of what it used to (bought mine for $35 or $40 from the store, now most places have them in the low 20's)....
 
Suicycoprowler said:
It is foolish to blame quality control problems on any country at large. If you have quality issues with knives, blame the company, not the country.
Click to expand...

I completely agree, but this sort of sentiment is curiously not often expressed when the topic of Chinese or Taiwanese knives comes up.
 
rcprocter, aside from the brands, what aspects did not meet your expectations?

knarfeng, I agree, you got it, profits before quality. Corporate is so focused on that they don't see the customer wants quality and is willing to pay for it, not the image it has some.

The same mindset will also invest in a multi million dollar production machine and not in the operator. Deming is still ignored in America.
 
Buck268 said:
Yes, but look at the Byrd line; speaks for itself.
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That's exactly my point. The Byrds are terrific knives, but many people automatically assume "Chinese-made = poor quality", which is obviously an inaccurate generalisation. The truth is, there are great knives made in China and Taiwan, and there are bad knives made there. There are also great knives made in the US, and there are some bad ones made here, too. It's simply impossible to make a blanket statement about the quality of knives based only on the country where they're manufactured.
 
Padawan said:
I completely agree, but this sort of sentiment is curiously not often expressed when the topic of Chinese or Taiwanese knives comes up.
Click to expand...
If a Chinese knife company or a Taiwanese knife company produces a product that is equal to or superior to other knife companies, the avid knife enthusiast would soon take notice. Would there be stereotypes to overcome? Yes, but good products from good companies usually find ways to succeed.

Not too long ago there was a big anti-Japanese sentiment when it came to the production of automobiles, but after years of competing with the U.S. and European automakers, Toyota is set to become the largest auto manufacturer in the world.
 
I have noticed quality of American made products continually declining over the years. Cars, knives, clothes (Levi's in particular), boots, shoes, tools (Crafsman in particular), etc.
 
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