Quality Question

I don't think any maker (MS or not) should have a sliding price scale based on what quality he is offering on a particular knife.

A maker's standard of quality should be consistent with every knife he makes and non-negotiable. And pricing should start with both maker and buyer knowing what his standard of quality is before going any farther in the transaction.

IMO type, style, size, embellishments and method of construction will very depending on price, however quality/fit/finish should not.
 
Kevin Jones said:
I don't think any maker (MS or not) should have a sliding price scale based on what quality he is offering on a particular knife.

A maker's standard of quality should be consistent with every knife he makes and non-negotiable. And his price should start with both maker and buyer knowing what his standard of quality is before going any farther in the transaction.
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I have no problem with a maker giving himself the latitude to make what will sell. Witness Burt Foster and his blue collar line of knives, Murray Carter and his forge finish kitchen knives, or Jason Knight and his field grade knives. All are intended as users and finished as such. Yet these same makers are all capable of making knives as nice as any. Do you think these guys should stop selling user grade knives that are priced as such?
 
I have never delt with a ms but would expect a knife with no problems and think the maker should have never made a $300.00 knife unless that is a refection of the quality of his work and if thats the case I dont think he should have a ms title.
Does the abs ever reveiw the master smiths or take complaints against makers who dont live up to the reputation of a master smith.
If you cant make a $300.00 dollar knife without defects and getting in a hurry to get it done without doing it right dont sell $300.00 Dollar Knives, I would return the knife and ask for my money back.
 
In my opinion, it is okay for there to be differing levels of fit and finish depending on what is being charged for a knife. That doesn't mean that the knife shouldn't still be high quality, but that stuff like the degree of polish, or the fit of scales and guard can be lower on a cheaper knife than on a more expensive one.
 
mike577 said:
I have no problem with a maker giving himself the latitude to make what will sell. Witness Burt Foster and his blue collar line of knives, Murray Carter and his forge finish kitchen knives, or Jason Knight and his field grade knives. All are intended as users and finished as such. Yet these same makers are all capable of making knives as nice as any. Do you think these guys should stop selling user grade knives that are priced as such?
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Many makers offer different categories of knives as you mentioned above, however IMO that does not necessarily mean different degree of quality. Different materials, different construction, different finish maybe.

Makers I buy from and follow offer less expensive user grade knives that are not sloppy. And that's where this discussion started "an alleged sloppy built MS knife".

I have just recently come to know Burt Foster in working with him on the BF Bowie project, and have observed his knives at two shows now. I'm not familiar with his "blue collar" line, but have noticed his $350 - $2000 knives offer very close if not the same excellent attention to detail, fine forging, fine grinds and tight handle and guard fit-up.

One collector here mentioned uneven grinds, bad finish among others, another mentioned an unacceptable gap between the handle slabs. I would think and hope most all makers would consider these unacceptable at any price they offer.
 
barrabas74 said:
Some verticle marks on the blade, hot spots on the handle were it appears the maker may have rushed the handle. The handle is inlaid sterling silver and that has a spot or two that has a yellow tint.
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Kevin, you are right, there should be no room for sloppiness on a Master Smith Knife. When I read about the knife about which barrabas posted, I envision a Moran style knife. The problems that were mentioned above, when I picture them, wouldn't bother me on a knife of that type at that price. Not that $300 is chump change. If I went to a maker who emulated Morans style and methods or Scagels for that matter I would expect something different than if I went to Tim Hancock. Just a matter of different processes providing different results. I'm making a number of assumptions here that may be unfounded, but until the owner of the knife discusses the matter with the maker, or posts a picture of the knife in question (which I hope he doesn't until he consults with the maker) I am willing to give the maker the benefit of the doubt.
 
mike577 said:
Kevin, you are right, there should be no room for sloppiness on a Master Smith Knife. When I read about the knife about which barrabas posted, I envision a Moran style knife. The problems that were mentioned above, when I picture them, wouldn't bother me on a knife of that type at that price. Not that $300 is chump change. If I went to a maker who emulated Morans style and methods or Scagels for that matter I would expect something different than if I went to Tim Hancock. Just a matter of different processes providing different results. I'm making a number of assumptions here that may be unfounded, but until the owner of the knife discusses the matter with the maker, or posts a picture of the knife in question (which I hope he doesn't until he consults with the maker) I am willing to give the maker the benefit of the doubt.
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I agree with you Mike and am glad the matter is being kept private in regard to the knife and maker.

I'm also glad barrabas has shared this experience as he has gotten non-bias opinions and advise and the issue has generated some constructive discussion here.
 
I guess I am willing to accept something that many others are not. If I am going to purchase a user, and I am paying a price that is well below a maker's norm, I am willing to accept some minor flaws that I would not accept at the maker's higher prices. Yes, I still want a well made knife, but I will not care about a lack of attention to minor details.
 
zr24x4er said:
I have never delt with a ms but would expect a knife with no problems and think the maker should have never made a $300.00 knife unless that is a refection of the quality of his work and if thats the case I dont think he should have a ms title.
Does the abs ever reveiw the master smiths or take complaints against makers who dont live up to the reputation of a master smith.
If you cant make a $300.00 dollar knife without defects and getting in a hurry to get it done without doing it right dont sell $300.00 Dollar Knives, I would return the knife and ask for my money back.
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I believe the ABS will at times step in to help resolved disputes and issues between ABS makers and knife purchases in a mediator capacity.
Believe its more in the case of where a maker has taken payment and not delivered rather than complaints regarding quality or lack of quality by a maker.
I may be totally wrong. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable regarding ABS polices, responsibilities and functional task can help here.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I guess I am willing to accept something that many others are not. If I am going to purchase a user, and I am paying a price that is well below a maker's norm, I am willing to accept some minor flaws that I would not accept at the maker's higher prices. Yes, I still want a well made knife, but I will not care about a lack of attention to minor details.
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I dont think my father thought he was buying a "user" now if he had thought that then I dont think he would have had an issue. I completley understand what you mean though. My father does not know alot about handmade knives yet so to him 300 dollars is well alot. I showed him some of "other makers" work and asked him what he "thought" the price was along with other people. They were way off, which I had expected. I dont think most regular people understand why a knife is over 1K. In his case what he figured he was paying for and what he got are diff.
 
Master smith means a set level of skill, it is not a guarentee of a specific level of quality. A maker should have the freedom make what he wants and sell it for what the market will bear. If a MS wants to pound out some cheap patch knives for a local festival and sell 'em at $100 a pop, why not? If they start making a different kind of knife and it's not perfect, why shouldn't they regain some of the time and money invested. The flaws are there for any to see.

I totally agreem with "I have no problem with a maker giving himself the latitude to make what will sell."

I recently bought a folder from a MS smith that was learning the folder trade. It was under $300, the blade was a little off center and the fit/finish was very good but not perfect. An omygosh it had girraffe bone slabs and nickel silver bolsters. However, the 3" bowie blade was a perfect flat grind as expected from a MS. The fit/finish small problems did not affect function and would be expected from a third attempt at a liner locking folder. I've seen worse for more money. I got a great value and since I use my customs, I got a great knife...not perfect, but a great.

If your dad doesn't like, send it back, that's the way it should work for any sight unseen purchase.
 
Barrabas74,

In this or any other deal, I believe a simple test will determine fairness.

If given two choices which would you choose?
1. Keep the item as is.
2. Return the item for a full refund.

This will tell you whether or not you received full fair value.
 
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