Quality vs price

"Also with an expensive knife you get a warranty. To take the example of that 400$ Strider: You break it? send it and it comes new"

You also get a 100% forever lifetime warranty with BUCK.
 
Mike-Mike said:
In general the difference between a $129 knife and a $179 knife is $50.
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Thank you for that edifying remark. I'm sure nobody else would have figured that out without you.

I think the difference between sub 100 knives and knives around 150 or less tends to be mainly materials, fit, and finish. More expensive knives tend to use more expensive steels, and you won't see that many $150 knives that don't have phosphor bronze washers, for instance. Fit and finish is usually a bit better, and you may also see better locks, at least if it's a liner or framelock. You don't see much in the way of titanium in cheaper knives either. Handle material tends to be more in the line of G10 instead of plastic.

Once you step up above that range, into the $200+ range of knives, you may see options like 3D machining of handle and more attention made to ergonomics and aesthetics, along with all the rest of it. Above that, you might see still more interesting and expensive materials, such as damascus steel and carbon fiber. Once you get past a certain point, you're mainly paying for aesthetics and the maker's talent and time. Is a $1500 custom folder with S30V steel and beefy framelock better than a Sebenza, or even a $150 model in anything that counts performance-wise? I kinda doubt it, at least in anything significant. But you're probably going to get exactly the knife you wanted, and it's going to have a much better aesthetic value to YOU than another knife would. Is that worth the extra? That's an individual decision. I think there are definitely reasons, and good ones, to get more expensive knives. But as has been said, everyone's stopping point is different. Most people are happy with their $5 gas station specials. If they keep it sharp, and don't care how easily it opens, etc, is it worth it to get a $30 knife? Or $100 knife? Maybe not; it all depends on what you want from your knife.
 
crimsonfalcon07 said:
Is a $1500 custom folder with S30V steel and beefy framelock better than a Sebenza, or even a $150 model in anything that counts performance-wise? I kinda doubt it, at least in anything significant. But you're probably going to get exactly the knife you wanted, and it's going to have a much better aesthetic value to YOU than another knife would. Is that worth the extra? That's an individual decision. I think there are definitely reasons, and good ones, to get more expensive knives. But as has been said, everyone's stopping point is different. Most people are happy with their $5 gas station specials. If they keep it sharp, and don't care how easily it opens, etc, is it worth it to get a $30 knife? Or $100 knife? Maybe not; it all depends on what you want from your knife.
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It's highly possible that it could make very noticable differences, for that kind of money sure... :thumbup:

One we get into customs the possibilities are only limited by your wallet.
 
The only reason I'd buy an expensive custom over a factory mass produced knife is if I wanted something no cutlery company makes. For example a good old fashioned Bowie. Traditional Bowies are very rare from factories these days. Tacticool is all the rage and it's like the industry has forgotten about us traditionalists.
 
Ankerson said:
It's highly possible that it could make very noticable differences, for that kind of money sure... :thumbup:

One we get into customs the possibilities are only limited by your wallet.
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I am sure there are differences. The question is whether there are significant differences with regards to PERFORMANCE. Is a $1500 knife going to lock up better than a $150 dollar knife? Is it going to cut better? Is it going to have less blade-play? Is it going to open significantly better? Or if it's a fixed blade, suppose you spend $1500 on a camping knife. Is it going to cut better and last longer than a BK2 or an ESEE? I have my doubts.

My point is that once you get up to that strata of knife cost, there's probably a lot more that goes into ergonomics and aesthetics and other factors than actual ability to get the job done. And for many people, they're not going to want to risk dinging up their $1500 blade, and they'll never use the knife at all. So at what point does it become a collector's item, rather than an actual usable and used tool?
 
I had the privilege to sit in a Ferrari California and Ferrari GTO 599 this morning shortly before I went to the local Honda dealership with my dad to pick his brand new pilot. I spent nearly an hour going over the two Ferrari's this morning to all of those who are trying use the Honda Ferrari comparison in terms of quality to illustrate the basic economic principle of the law of diminishing returns, PLEASE STOP. The quality of engineering and manufacturing that goes into a high performance machine of that caliber is mind numbing. Every component of that Ferrari was designed and built to operate at speeds well in excess of 200 mph, to do it repeatedly without failing. To even begin to compare that with a car mass produced for everyday driving is foolishness of the highest order and shows a complete lack of understanding and or knowledge of engineering and manufacturing process, practices and procedures. The GTO 599 I sat in had a F1 racing engine it that turns out something 600 horsepower no part of the honda accord could even handle the forces turned out by that much horse power without some very serious modifications, i.e. rebuilding the entire car to an entirely different level of higher quality designed and manufactured specs. I could go on but its a waste of time, just stop doing using this an example as it quite possibly the worst example to use for law of diminishing returns.
 
I have a buddy who is in the knife business.. I will never forget him telling me" you should never pay more than 200.00 for a knife"

I have to agree to a point.. I have broken that saying more than I can remember...
Right now, my "go to" fixed blade is a Bill Buxton hunter in 52100.. I love that knife, and it is with me everytime I am in my tree stand..It is a 400.00 knife that I paid 150.00 for.. If you buy knives on the secondary market you can typically get a ton of knife for the money..
 
MikeC said:
I had the privilege to sit in a Ferrari California and Ferrari GTO 599 this morning shortly before I went to the local Honda dealership with my dad to pick his brand new pilot. I spent nearly an hour going over the two Ferrari's this morning to all of those who are trying use the Honda Ferrari comparison in terms of quality to illustrate the basic economic principle of the law of diminishing returns, PLEASE STOP. The quality of engineering and manufacturing that goes into a high performance machine of that caliber is mind numbing. Every component of that Ferrari was designed and built to operate at speeds well in excess of 200 mph, to do it repeatedly without failing. To even begin to compare that with a car mass produced for everyday driving is foolishness of the highest order and shows a complete lack of understanding and or knowledge of engineering and manufacturing process, practices and procedures. The GTO 599 I sat in had a F1 racing engine it that turns out something 600 horsepower no part of the honda accord could even handle the forces turned out by that much horse power without some very serious modifications, i.e. rebuilding the entire car to an entirely different level of higher quality designed and manufactured specs. I could go on but its a waste of time, just stop doing using this an example as it quite possibly the worst example to use for law of diminishing returns.
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Maybe the classic comparison between Ferrari and Porsche would be better. Similar performance for much less money.
 
MikeC said:
I had the privilege to sit in a Ferrari California and Ferrari GTO 599 this morning shortly before I went to the local Honda dealership with my dad to pick his brand new pilot...
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I'm not sure that the point of that example was diminishing returns. I don't think anyone is saying that you don't get anything out of it. The point is more different strokes for different folks. If all you're going to do with your Ferrari is drive it around town, then why get a Ferrari? Seriously, how many places can you actually drive your car more than 100 miles per hour, let alone 200? Sure, you're getting more of a car. But the point is that most folks don't really NEED more of a car, and outside of racers, where's the benefit of owning a Ferrari? You can't use it for what it's designed for, most places. It's more of a status symbol than anything. The same can be said of knives. If you're just looking for an EDC, are you really going to EDC a $1500 knife? Most people won't, and they also don't NEED a knife that expensive.

Nobody is comparing a Ferrari and an Accord and saying that they're equally good. But if your goal is to get from point A to point B on a daily basis, without breaking laws and ending up in jail, both of them are going to get the job done. You buy a Ferrari because you need one, because you're wealthy enough to collect, or because you have some sort of a need to demonstrate something about yourself that requires a Ferrari to get it done. Most people probably don't fall into the first category. The same applies to knives.

I might also add, before you go off on people for using an example, it might behoove you to actually understand what they're referring to.
 
The car may be designed to run at speeds in excess of 200 mph and the engine is 600 hp, but will you go at that speed any were? Is this car a pleasure to run in a city traffic jam?
But the main point is that people for some reason mistake specifications and design for quality, and cost for price.
Ferrari is not better quality - it is just different specifications, different design, materials, tolerances and finish... It is different product altogether. It is not the same car taken to another quality level! Palaces are not just a better quality residential housing!
And manufacturers can not realistically increase their prices by simply increasing their costs (by putting more expensive materials, spending more man-hours or paying higher salaries to their presumably more skilled workers) - they must produce some product characteristics the customer is willing to pay for. That could be just image - that works. But price does not equal cost plus margin... The margin though indeed is price minus cost... ;)
 
Well, I'd venture to say that Ferrari is better quality. I just don't know that it's a worthy investment for the average driver.
 
crimsonfalcon07 said:
Well, I'd venture to say that Ferrari is better quality. I just don't know that it's a worthy investment for the average driver.
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I agree. It also all depends on what the driver wants to do with a car. For a number of Ferrari owners, they are members of clubs that might hold races a few weekends a year, and run the car on the track to the limit of their abilities. It's also the feeling you get behind the wheel, the performance, the response, the sound, a lot of things you won't be able to get from the average car. Then there are also Ferrari owners who don't drive the car hard, and buy them just to have them. It's like having safe queens and users. I know a guy in my car club that bought 2 identical cars, one of which he sent out to get modified and get track prepped, and the other one is stock (cept for the wheels) that he drives around town with. The race-prepped car has roughly triple the money into it as the stock one. One's a user, and the other, a safe queen (of sorts).

I ordered a chopper from a custom knifemaker here. I drew up a design, and he made it according to my specifications, the type of steel, the blade shape, handle material type, etc. I know that there are other choppers out there that will likely perform as well, but none will feel as good in my hand, and give me the satisfaction of owning something more special. I also ordered a folder from a custom maker here, and I normally would not have even considered it except that he is doing it in a steel that is very hard to work with, and as such, hardly any other custom maker works with it. In the end, it's going to be one of my most expensive knives, but judging from the steel's performance, blade geometry and materials, I know it will most likely stay sharp longer, cut more effectively, and feel better in the hand compared to my other high-end (but production) folders.

There is value spent on performance, and then there is value spent on embellishment. $10K on a stroker motor? or $10K on a paint job? Some go for show, some go for go. It's all good.
 
What was the original question again? All I want is a Ferrari now :)

I own all kinds of knives from production to mid-tech to custom. Here's my opinion.

I love my Sebenza. It is knife perfection as far as I'm concerned. Simple maintenance, lifetime warranty, stays sharp, cuts great, you know the deal..the whole package. Cost me $325. It's my "weekend" knife. Perfect.

I've owned more expensive customs and they're all gone now.

The knives I use on a daily basis, at work, are not expensive, by any means. A Buck Vantage 420 Paperstone has been in my pocket for the past year and it's excellent.
It has a similar blade shape to the Sebenza, hollow grind, good ergonomics, solid lock up,
Sure, it's not a Sebenza, but it is an excellent value for me at $24 (they've since gone on liquidation in Canada at $15 and I picked up half a dozen just because I like it so much.)

I could get by everyday of my life with a Vantage. It works for me. However that doesn't mean that I can't tell it's differences from a Sebenza.
It costs 10x more, and it's worth it, definitely.

I do have trouble spending more than $150 on a production knife though.
 
Post # 2 pretty much sums it up. If i had a $1500 knife, i'd probably be paranoid i may loose it. I'd still be mad if i lost a $50 one too, just not as much.
 
There is definitely a point of diminishing returns with knives just like firearms. Higher quality knives use better materials and have generally a better fit and finish. I am no expert, but with slip joints, Case pretty much defines the point of diminishing returns, but a Schatt & Morgan, Canal Street or GEC slip joint is certainly better to me than the Case, but both will cut pretty well and both will hold an edge. The next step are the custom slip joints and you cetainly get better fit and finish, better materials in general, but the blade steel will likely not be much better.
 
crimsonfalcon07 said:
I'm not sure that the point of that example was diminishing returns. I don't think anyone is saying that you don't get anything out of it. The point is more different strokes for different folks. If all you're going to do with your Ferrari is drive it around town, then why get a Ferrari? Seriously, how many places can you actually drive your car more than 100 miles per hour, let alone 200? Sure, you're getting more of a car. But the point is that most folks don't really NEED more of a car, and outside of racers, where's the benefit of owning a Ferrari? You can't use it for what it's designed for, most places. It's more of a status symbol than anything. The same can be said of knives. If you're just looking for an EDC, are you really going to EDC a $1500 knife? Most people won't, and they also don't NEED a knife that expensive.

Nobody is comparing a Ferrari and an Accord and saying that they're equally good. But if your goal is to get from point A to point B on a daily basis, without breaking laws and ending up in jail, both of them are going to get the job done. You buy a Ferrari because you need one, because you're wealthy enough to collect, or because you have some sort of a need to demonstrate something about yourself that requires a Ferrari to get it done. Most people probably don't fall into the first category. The same applies to knives.

I might also add, before you go off on people for using an example, it might behoove you to actually understand what they're referring to.
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Nailed it.

The most I've ever spent on a knife is $150, and it was simply to buy a large knife of high quality; the design, size, build and quality simply couldn't be purchased for less (or I would'a bought it!). Just as many others here have stated, I find most knives tend to top out at $150-200, in terms of offering excellent fit & finish, quality steel and useful or necessary design and functionality. Beyond that is mostly gravy.

For my $1500, a custom knife would basically have to appear, for all intents and purposes, flawless: that is, it must conform to my hypothetical ideal of a knife in every way in order for me to justify paying that sort of premium. But, again, as others have said, at that point I'm not going to carry it, for fear of damaging or losing it. Perhaps if I were filthy rich, I'd carry it daily and not bat an eye. If it were to break, I'd "throw in the gutter, and go buy another". But really, any improvements in ergonomics or performance aren't going to make enough difference for everyday, workhorse situations. No go.
 
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