Quality Waterproof?

Will Power

Will Power

Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
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I'd like your views please on a quality waterproof coat or preferably a poncho or oilskin type thing that can be worn over a coat but rolls up & can be stowed in a pack.

Must be decent quality, durable, price not important, hooded:thumbup:
 
If you have an existing nylon coat, you can treat it with a DWR. I think NikWax makes one.
 
That campmor looks very promising! I've asked them if they ship to the EU, hope so.
Need something sturdy but not heavy, fed up with cheap ponchos that don't last.
 
I have a columbia rain jacket w/ hood(sorry I couldnt find a pic). It only cost about $50-75 or so. Its a light weight shell I wear over some fleece when it gets cold. It folds up into its own pocket for packing. I also have some pants that are similiar and work well. It the best jacket I've ever had and breathes well.
 
I sell this stuff for a living, so I see an awful lot of it. You might want to take a look at fabric based jackets since they are more breathable than the ponchos, so the rain won't get in, but your sweat can get out. They tend to be lighter too. Of course, some people prefer the simplicity and durability of ponchos, and there is nothing wrong with that. Here are some tips if you stray away from the classic plastic poncho type rain jacket:

-Look for taped or welded seams. Water will get in at the seams in a heavy downpour.
-Pitzips are my favorite part of every jacket I own with them. You would be amazed at how much less moisture and heat you retain on your body with a little venting.
-Some jackets will have adjustable elastic cords in the hoods that cinch around the back of your head. Different companies call them different things, but they keep the hood attached to your head, so the hood moves with your head and does not flap back in high winds.
-Sil-nylon is not waterproof, so don't listen to marketing lies. :) it is awfully lightweight, but you will get SOAKED in a decent rainstorm.

The Marmot Precip is a nice choice. It retails for $100, and can be found all over the place for less than that. It is light, waterproof, and cheap.

It's too bad you aren't in the US. REI is doing their super clearance right how and you can get some great waterproof jackets for crazy cheap. I have an ultralight one that packs down to and weighs nothing that I paid maybe $40 for, with all of the above features, and then some.
 
^ I respectfully disagree with you. I have always found oilskin ponchos to be more breathable than fabric jackets. There is large vent spaces as you move with a poncho, and moisture laden air vents quickly. I have not found that with jackets, and i have tested a LOT of gear.

HOWEVER, each to their own,just like knifes! :cool::thumbup:

for an oilskin poncho, i like this one:

http://www.newzealandnz.co.nz/bestofdownunder/drizabone/poncho_heavyweight.html

(or at least i did until goddman scum thieves ripped off my truck and poncho... :( ).....
 
This is getting interesting...thanks for all your points of view.

My main concern is something that will pack down compact and yet be reliable.
 
ah, for compact packing forget the oilskin. Its bulky when packed, although it rolls up well and can be secured like a blanket roll and slung over the shoulder...... :thumbup:

let sus know what you get :cool:
 
storl said:
I sell this stuff for a living, so I see an awful lot of it. You might want to take a look at fabric based jackets since they are more breathable than the ponchos, so the rain won't get in, but your sweat can get out. They tend to be lighter too. Of course, some people prefer the simplicity and durability of ponchos, and there is nothing wrong with that. Here are some tips if you stray away from the classic plastic poncho type rain jacket:

-Look for taped or welded seams. Water will get in at the seams in a heavy downpour.
-Pitzips are my favorite part of every jacket I own with them. You would be amazed at how much less moisture and heat you retain on your body with a little venting.
-Some jackets will have adjustable elastic cords in the hoods that cinch around the back of your head. Different companies call them different things, but they keep the hood attached to your head, so the hood moves with your head and does not flap back in high winds.
-Sil-nylon is not waterproof, so don't listen to marketing lies. :) it is awfully lightweight, but you will get SOAKED in a decent rainstorm.

The Marmot Precip is a nice choice. It retails for $100, and can be found all over the place for less than that. It is light, waterproof, and cheap.

It's too bad you aren't in the US. REI is doing their super clearance right how and you can get some great waterproof jackets for crazy cheap. I have an ultralight one that packs down to and weighs nothing that I paid maybe $40 for, with all of the above features, and then some.
Click to expand...

Well Storl you seem to be the man to ask about this.

I have a number of rain jackets and stuff and all seem to work decently in cool weather or standing still.

However I find that when hiking in the summer in the rain that NONE will wick sweat away enough when hiking especially like uphill for several miles with a pack on.

I end up as wet from the condensation as the rain itself.

Now some of the jackets with a mesh lining seem to be a tiny bit better just like a double walled tent doesn't condense as intensely as a single wall, but in general it seems like most are so heavy I don't want to backpack with them or the extra layer of mesh makes me sweat even MORE:confused:

So is there any solution? About the best I've run into is the poncho cause you can lift it up and let the perspiration evaporate but I'd love to find something that works really well.
 
hollowdweller:

There isn't much of a solution for you. Crappy reply, huh? :)

I am in GA and hike mostly in the southeast, so I am in the same boat. I used a poncho as a kid, but like someone above said, they are bulky, heavy, and do not pack down well. Also, if you are doing more technical stuff, they inhibit movement. Not a big deal if you are just hiking on easy trails, but it becomes an issue when you are scrambling over boulders. They DO have increased airflow just due to their design, so they can move body moisture better.

As far as a Gore-Tex (any of their fabrics), Precip, etc., you just have to open them up as much as possible to increase airflow. Open the pitzips, the pockets, the front zipper, and anything else you can to vent them. You have to remember that if it is raining, that means the humidity is 100% and the air is completely saturated. Your body moisture will not evaporate fast enough, if at all.

So, what to do? Wear a layer that wicks moisture away from your core, dries quickly and still regulates your body temperature. I completely avoid cotton in the outdoors. The one benefit of cotton is that your moisture will stay next to your body in hot weather, so you are not sweating needlessly as it will cool you off when it (slowly) evaporates.

I personally try to wear merino wool as much as possible. It is expensive, so it is hard to completely recommend to someone if they can't get it super cheap or have money to blow, but it is amazing. I have a 140 weight shirt from Icebreaker that is easily the best shirt I have ever worn, and I own a LOT of outdoor clothing (too much, if you ask my girl or any other sane person). It wicks well, keeps you cool in the summer, warm in the winter, and makes me stink less than normal. Polyester is another good alternative that will wick moisture and dry quickly, and is quite a bit cheaper. It can get quite stinky on long trips and does not regulate temps well, but I still like it for day hikes. The REI Sahara Tech T feels like soft cotton, but is 100% polyester, so you have the benefits of both.

Did that help? That looks like a lot of rambling on my part.
 
Check out some of the Outdoor Research jackets as they come with zippers that pretty much run the length of the jacket to make them "ponchos" when needed, but seal up very well when it's really coming down. Worth the price if that's what you're looking for.
 
Storl,

The only solution that's worked (for me) that's not inhibiting to movement is if it in summer is to just wear a super light quick drying shirt and pair of shorts, and a rain proof hat.

The rain proof hat seems to keep my head mostly dry and then when I get to where I am camping I just set up the tent wring out the clothes and I have a set of dry clothes for camp.
 
I'm a big fan of Helly Hansen's "Hellytech" waterproof/breathable fabric (better than Goretex in my opinion), the "packable" line is lightweight and does a pretty good job of keeping one dry. I wear this stuff at work in the bush and for being lightweight it does standup pretty well. I generally repair 2-3 rips a year, but this gear is relatively cheap so I don't worry about it too much.

Waterproof/breathables are far from perfect, infact no raingear is perfect, and personally I am not a big fan of the poncho, but to each their own. One major issue that not many people realise is that these waterproof/breathables really do have a limited life span. My North Face Mountain Jacket has been replaced now about five times in 15 years under warranty as the Goretex stopped working (rain passed through freely, this is a Goretex issue, nothing to do with The North Face). One must accept the fact that with heavy daily use it's only going to last a couple of years, so you either fork out the cash for the best and get a great warranty, or buy as cheap as possible knowing you will simply replace it when it stops working, I tend to do both (different rain jackets for different climates and different types of work/activities).

Storl's suggestion of layering and wearing something that will wick away moisture is a good one, and it makes you feel dry, I like Helly Hansen's Pro Wool line, the inner fabric layer is polypropelene that wicks away moisture from your skin, and the outer layer of the fabric is wool for warmth, and nothing beats wool for warmth when wet! My 2¢
 
Have you looked into frog-tog jackets? I've seen them in stores and have wondered for a while about them.
 
I'll vouch for the Marmot Precip jacket. It's strong, well-made, and water just beads right off it. It's also very thin and packs extremely small. It has no liner so if you're using it in warm weather I'd recommend some kind of wicking shirt, like Underarmour or similar. Depending on how much I layer I can wear it in any season.
 
I got a Marmot Precip for Christmas and love it... much lighter than my previous pull-over anorak and more water repellent.
 
It's called "durable water repellant" (DWR) because it's not especially durable. :p But it's important to keep reapplying per manufacturer's recommendations 'cause it keeps a film of water from forming on the exterior of a garment, preventing breathing.

The government had lab tests done on how breathable certain fabrics actually are. The results are here: http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/breathability.pdf

The best water-repellant was Schoeller Dryskin Extreme
The best waterproof was eVent

Breathability of fabrics like Gore's improves as humidity inside the garment increases = breathes better when you're soaked with sweat. :rolleyes:

Expanded PTFE was included for a standard. It is impractical because skin oil causes it to leak badly, which is why Gore stoped using it (except as a base for microporous polyurethane).

Both Schoeller and event are European, harder to find, and relatively pricy.

Nextec is easier to find since made here and selected by the G for miliary garments. It requires no DWR.
 
Mammut and Cloudveil both use quite a bit of Schoeller, so it can be found in the US. Both are relatively pricey brands though, so they will not compare with anything you can find in WalMart, Cabella's, Bass Pro, etc. Some companies have started going away from Schoeller because of how it tends to "pick" or have the fibers pop up when something sharp pricks it. I personally love Schoeller fabrics and don't mind a few pieces of the thread poking out here and there.

I just got back from a trade show with next year's products, and nothing revolutionary is on the horizon. Gore-Tex Pro Shell is pretty awesome, but the pricing is ridiculous so far.

eVent is seeing more and more use, especially in footwear. I have a pair of shoes and a pair of boots with eVent, and they both breathe and perform very well when compared to similar Gore-Tex footwear. Not many outerwear companies use eVent, but it pops up every now and then. Westcomb (I think) and 66 North (I know) are two that use eVent quite a bit, and both can be found/ordered in the US. Again, not very cheap companies at full retail.
 
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