Queen Canoe... encountered a bad sample

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Those gaps are ridiculous. I would not accept a knife that poorly assembled. That is very discouraging, I am sorry you are having such bad luck!
 
Jani, I can't believe the run of bad luck you've been having. I hope that Queen/Ontario does something to make this right for you. There's no excuse for this whatsoever, imho.

If there's anything I can do to assist you, contact me privately. And if you ever get over here for a visit, I'll make sure you have something good to return home with.
 
:eek:

i would be embarassed to put my name on a knife like that. i'm sure this is not representative of queens quality as a whole but two substandard knives on a row does'nt look good.

definatetly send that thing back to queen. the very least they should do is cover the cost of all shiping.
 
Seals said:
Queen generally makes an excellent knife.I hate to see they are letting this type of material out of the plant.Even if they are still good "users" you can get better fit and finish for $9-$12 in a Rough Rider,China Buck,Kissing Crane,and too many others.There are many that desire only USA cutlery,but there has to be a good reason.Higher quality being the main reason.
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That pretty well sums it up. If I want that kind of fit and finish, I will buy my knives at the gas station.

For the record, I have NEVER seen a RR, Remington, or any of the prominent Chinese knives turn out something like that. I have seen a ton of them at the local gun shows and sporting goods stores, too. And they are literally 80% (or more!) less in cost.

The first thing I would do is make sure I never purchased from the dealer you used again. If he can't do any better than that with a replacement knife, it shows how little he cares for his business and his clients. Shame, shame.

The appropriate place to drop the hammer on them is here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=1&f=699

The next thing I would do is contact Queen directly and send them the pictures, along with a picture of your receipt so they can see it is brand new, along with a description of what you have been through so far. I had a problem with an Ontario (same as Queen) product I purchased, called them up, and explained the problem and they stuck with me until I was satisfied. They were great to work with.

Queen can make a gorgeous folder. While not as perfect as some seen here, some are better than a lot of customs (when you get a good one). There is no excuse at all for that kind of poor product being out there, and I certainly hope Queen will make things right.

Good luck. Let us know how this turns out.

Robert
 
Its sharp, its solid... but I try to get it fixed. However I need to make it more... complex way as I don't want to pay VAT twice like I had with my GEC #73...
 
Gah.. it's getting way too hit and miss with those Queen knives. Getting very hesitant about purchasing any since I can't check in advance.
 
I think chinese made knives will soon be your only choice. Economy is bad - people cut back spending - factory tries to maintain price point - furloughs workers and cuts back where possible - quality suffers - customers revolt - sales weaken further - furloughs deepen further - quality suffers further - customers revolt further -------

The American Cutlery industry has been a niche industry that needed every possible customer as it was. I think we always new that a robot could make a more precise knife than a craftsman, but that didn't necessarily mean a better knife. Now with our demands that they leave the price point alone but maintain quality it has them in an impossible situation. Schrade goes, Camillus goes, Case is cutting to try and stay alive, Queen implements furloughs to try and stay alive, ...

Meanwhile, there are two kinds of buyers of the American / German slipjoints. One gets in a knife - opens it - closes it - takes a quick look at it - and pockets it. The second gets in a knife - gets out the microscope - gives it the old thumb/index finger blade movement discernment test - looks for all possible issues to report to 1000 of his closest friends - then opens a thread. One positive thread sells the maker 100 knives; one negative thread costs the maker 1000 sales. I am one of those of which I speak; for a long time I thought pressure applied to the factories via these venues would push them to improve quality. But the forces pushing against them are much greater.

When knives were tools, and the knives made are now worth their weight in gold, they have all the same problems that handmade knives have today. Case XX Tested, Remington, Winchester, etc. from the early 1900's are the great old cutlery that makes us drool. And it is just as common for them to have tight backsprings, gaps, pin cracks, issues here and there, as today. Even our newest factories in the U.S. are using the same equipment that made these old classics.

I am one of the picky ones and send more than my share of product back to the factories. It is hard earned money spent on a product that should be as perfect as possible at that price point; and the price point is moving north. But I do have enough foresight to see what is happening, and what will happen beyond that. In our history it is always the same story: a more economical version comes along and puts the old version to pasture; then slowly - but surely the economical version moves into the price point of the long retired classic. As long as there is a country that only pays labor enough to live on, there will be a cheaper model. Who knows, once our economy collapses maybe we will regain a craftsmanship glory with Americans that will once again produce great cutlery for wages to feed their family and no more.

These types of conversations have repeated themselves over and over again. The typical responses are: "if china can make a knife with this fit/finish then so can we", "for a few extra minutes in the factory they could have fixed these issues", "QC should have never let that out the door", etc. etc. But the fact of the matter is that until you walk a mile in their shoes, you don't really know the cost associated with any of these task. And I suspect that when you pay your employees enough to enjoy life, that extra 10 minutes to work out all the cosmetics of every knife adds up very quickly.

So I think we are at a turning point in which American and German factories can no longer please a portion of the market at the inevitable price point. We don't want sloppy knives, and they can't lose money just to produce knives that can satisfy us. We probably need to go ahead and pick whether we want the $10 imports or the $400 customs, because the middle ground seems to be moving into history. And the imports and domestic tactical types are getting better every day at an attractive price point.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want an old hacked up - mismatch - gapped knife either. Thus I would much prefer they just make a near perfect knife and put a $90 price tag on it instead of a $50 mess. But that $90 price tag would run off 80% of their clientele and the imperfections just run off 20% (complete guesses on percentages).

Just my 2cents..
 
Mike,

What a well thought out and informative post. I applaud you.

I happen to agree with about everything you say and I think that's why (rightly or wrongly) that I am more forgiving of small issues with many of my production (and even some custom) knives.

I want to support the industry (as a whole) and the people (specifically).
I also find with the passing of years that in many ways I'm not quite as critical of all the minutiae as I once was. That's probably a more natural progression amongst experienced users/collectors than I even realize.

I hope that all the companies will find their niche and be able to produce knives at a (reasonable) price point that will allow workers to live a quality life and collectors to get value for their dollar. (This goes for both domestic as well as international makers and manufacturers.)

Jani and I have discussed his particular situation and I will assist him (as necessary) with getting an appropriate remedy to his own situation. In his case it's just unfortunate that he had a bad run of luck.
 
I agreee with Mike... I still want to buy USA made knives since most patterns originate from the USA or Britain, I'd rather buy my trads from originating country.

Elliott, I go first name base with Mr Murphy and you might have noticed that there's reason for that :) First GEC #73, then two Queen canoes... I am actually bit affraif how Queen made Forum knife turns out for my sample :eek:

I am thinking if someone in upstairs trying to say: holkd your horses for bit, lad... *thinks*
 
thejamppa said:
I agreee with Mike... I still want to buy USA made knives since most patterns originate from the USA or Britain, I'd rather buy my trads from originating country.

Elliott, I go first name base with Mr Murphy and you might have noticed that there's reason for that :) First GEC #73, then two Queen canoes... I am actually bit affraif how Queen made Forum knife turns out for my sample :eek:

I am thinking if someone in upstairs trying to say: holkd your horses for bit, lad... *thinks*
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Jani, even Tony Bose will tell you that there's no such thing as a perfect knife and speaking for myself, though I love the knives in my collection, I can find fault or flaw with every one of them if I care (or want) to.
This applies to both custom and production.

The fact is that I'm willing to allow a bit of latitude, be it a mismatch of scale color, a small hint of play, a tiny gap, a nick that's not perfectly crisp or what have you.

In the end we all have to decide what's "enough" and what's "appropriate" in return for our hard earned money. I have come to the conclusion that life is short, I'm surely not perfect and I no longer expect my pocket knives to be.

As long as it puts a smile on my face when I look at it and use it, it's a keeper. I can live with the rest. YMMV. (But I will help you get satisfaction from Mr. Murphy, one way or another.)
 
I'm not sure that it is merely the cost of the knife that decides the buyer on it. American wage costs etc must be higher than Asian counterparts obviously, but where they need to compete is consistency of finish. Inability or unwillingness to invest in modern machine tools and production technology must inevitably impact on product consistency. Old machinery may be 'quaint' but it cannot ensure a low level of faults. This was one of the reasons behind Sheffield's terminal decline. Wage costs in Switzerland are much higher than America or most EU countries but SAK has maintained investment in modern dies and equipment, hence their knives' homogenity of build quality.

I am very eager to pay more for American or European cutlery, not out of dislike or contempt for Asia, far from it, but I admire the heritage and authenticity of old cutlers. Nevertheless, they have to produce a product that is dependable and unlikely to be under par. Certainly there is no such thing as a perfect knife, but we all know the difference between owning a knife that pleases us and 'tolerating' a knife that we cannot really relate to due to undeniable but avoidable faults.
 
very true words Elliott. There's no perfection. Little imperfections add character to knife... I'll carry this knife bit and look what Queen/Ontario suggests. I am pretty satisfied that blades are tight and bevels are very nice.
 
many good points covered, however i hate to say this but i believe the chinese are going to do to american cutlery what the japanese did to the american auto industry in the 70s & 80s.the labor costs aggravated by unions plus the fact the chinese are starting their factories with new & better machines allowing tighter tolerances.all that is insignificant unless we start buying more & more of the chinese products. it does look like the trend is moving towards the chinese knives.i have nothing against the chinese & when spydie gets the chinese making bradleys in m4 & enduras in zdp189 with correct heattreats i will probably be buying chinese knives also. as to my great easterns i believe the collecibility will favor american knives.
dennis--- i have no quarrel with anyone.
 
I do not know who Jani bought his knife from, but I know what is going through my mind and it ain't pretty and it isn't necessarily all formed toward the manufacturer. Vendors know where these knives are going and they know what kind of trouble it is for people out of country to return knives to the manufacturer for warranty work. I'll let you all figure out the rest.

Ed
 
midnight flyer said:
The first thing I would do is make sure I never purchased from the dealer you used again. If he can't do any better than that with a replacement knife, it shows how little he cares for his business and his clients. Shame, shame.

The appropriate place to drop the hammer on them is here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=1&f=699


Robert
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TLARbb said:
I do not know who Jani bought his knife from, but I know what is going through my mind and it ain't pretty and it isn't necessarily all formed toward the manufacturer. Vendors know where these knives are going and they know what kind of trouble it is for people out of country to return knives to the manufacturer for warranty work. I'll let you all figure out the rest.

Ed
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it is bad enough that these knives got out to the dealers but then to simply pass them on to a customer is highly suspect IMO. if it happens once... oops... twice.... meh... but three times? this should definately find its way to GBU. i would'nt want to buy from that dealer.
 
I recently received a bum Queen as well. I'm waiting for the dealer to send me a better assembled one or $$$ if a better one doesn't exist. Looks like it's going around. :[
 
thejamppa said:
I'll get another knife from retailer. No noticable blade play and minor gap between the handles according the seller who was kind enough to phone me personally. I don't mind small gaps, after all my knives are users... but the blade play is... well another thing.

I can fix blade play in limited extense but this much is way too much to handles without actually disassembling knife, in which I don't have tools nor place to do it.
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Just to get this straight in my mind: You buy a Queen canoe and once it is shipped internationally you get a dog. You contact the seller and he tells you he has another canoe but it has a backspring gap. You have him send it internationally as a replacement and he covers shipping to you; you pay to ship the dog back. You get the new canoe and sure enough it has a gap, so you post that you got another dog. Is this correct, or are you getting the knives in-country?
 
knifeswapper said:
Just to get this straight in my mind: You buy a Queen canoe and once it is shipped internationally you get a dog. You contact the seller and he tells you he has another canoe but it has a backspring gap. You have him send it internationally as a replacement and he covers shipping to you; you pay to ship the dog back. You get the new canoe and sure enough it has a gap, so you post that you got another dog. Is this correct, or are you getting the knives in-country?
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I got them in country, thank God I don't need to pay international shippings yet. Getting traditional slipjoints nativelly is really hard job if you want other than modern Schrades. Getting the few knife retailers making special order's for traditional slipjoints is tad hard, luckily one has started taking in some Queen's, Case's and GEC's lately but they have to import them from the states and as middle men prices are tad more expensive and they cannot inspect all knives they get. However they have had one heck of an service and go for mile for me.
 
Does Queen sell seconds like some other companies or do they just let everything out the door and hope for the best due to the economy? Knifeswapper, or Mike, I enjoyed and agree with your read. Ed, I agree, the vendor should look out for his customer.Customer is #1, and with Queens CS there shouldn't be a problem.
Being production knives I can overlook small flaws. I still scrutinize them, just because thats what I do and will continue to support these companies. Things like Queen having sharp edges from stampings I like because thats the way they were made. Tumbled blades with rounded corners can be a plus for your pockets, but even though it's not a flaw, I don't like it. I think it takes away a bit of tradition. $0.02.
 
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