queen mountain man fit and finish

E

elasmonut

Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
662
I have always carried liner and frame locks the last 15years but have recently had a bug to have a nice traditional slipjoint. After some hunting around on the net I chose a queen mountain man good simple design and better steel IMO than many traditionals.
It arrived today and I am overall satisfied with the design, good balance nice thin edge, and good ergo's.
My question is with the fit and finish, mine required some sharpening which is fair, but my main concern is its a little gappy up around the bolster, the blade is so off centre it rubs on the brass liner and there is a small amount of side blade wobble.Also the grind looks a little wavy under the buffed polish.
I'm just curious, is this normal for Queens? I mean they're flaws I can live with as I intend it to be a user but for the money I expected a little better.
Maybe I'm spoiled my last edc was a Sebenza and I know they are a different animal and price range but still.
My other concern which I suspect may be inherent to all traditional slipjoints is if you let it snap shut the edge contacts the backspring and flat spots the edge.Which means it can't be shut one handed.
So am I expecting too much or did I get a lemon?
I've also had my eye on the new carbon fibre Case Sodbuster or backpocket, apart from the surgical stainless am I looking at better fit and finish and no backspring contact with these or am I just generally expecting custom quality from production pieces. Because so far compared to kershaw, spyderco, bencmade etc. I'm a little dissapointed with the quality for the price.
 
it is not unexpected for traditional slipjoints to have flaws like this, but this does not make it acceptable. It sounds like your knife is a sample of everything that can go wrong with a slipjoint - play, bladerub, gaps, edge hitting backspring. In your position I would send it back, the edge hitting the backspring is not even a cosmetic issue, it is one of function and though there are some traditional knives that have this flaw by design (e.g. Laguioles), it is not characteristic of american slipjoints. You can read about the recent history of Queen and its attendant changes in quality on other threads, but they are supposed to be getting more reliable with the fit and finish since they became family owned again a little over a year ago. People will hate me for turning this into yet another GEC thread :), but their pattern #23, or the upcoming #42 backlocks are similar beasts to the mountain man, and this company has a more reliable standard fit and finish at the moment. AG Russell is also something to consider.
 
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Definitely send it to Queen for repair. I have a Queen MM (a trade deal on the exchange) and I have none of the problems you mention.
 
I would also send it to Queen! In fact I did send 1 back because of blade play in the locked position. It took em a month but it locks up solid now! :cool:


Dave
 
I have a Mountain Man and have been very pleased with it. In your case, I would send it back to the retailer or send it to Queen for repair/replacement.
 
Thanks guys this is kind of what I expected to hear, I didn't really expect it to behave like a $400 knife, I expected to do some edge work and a few little cosmetic gaps didn't bother me but blade wobble, rubbing on the liner when closed to the point it scratches, and edge damage every time you don't shut it carefully made me wonder why I didn't just get a $20 chinese knockoff.
I've had a lot of knives over the years and even make a few fixed blades so the fit and finish expectations I had of a $100 dollar knife were I think reasonable. I know this thread would be much better with pics but I can't post yet so bear with me
What complicates it a little for me is the knife was a gift, My wonderful girlfriend saw me eyeing off the queen, and got it for my birthday yesterday, and as soon as it was out of the box even she picked up the gaps around the bolster. And being a gift I'm a little reluctant to tell her how dissapointing the overall knife is, also for the same reason I'm reluctant to press her for the place of purchase, receipt etc. I was kind of hoping I could just box it up send it back to Queen with a polite letter explaining my concerns and have them send me one that works the way it should.I'm also in Australia so this might be a slow process but if you guys agree that these problems are genuine , and Queen normally has a better product and their Customer service is good , then this is what I'll do. I'll email queen later today explain my concerns if I get a reasonable response then to the mailbax it is
Someone here mentioned GEC which I considered at the time as I'd heard good things about thier fit and finish the same of AG Russell but GEC only had the lockback version and for legal reasons wanted a slipjoint and I think the AG's that were similar all had aus8 or some such. What I was after was a traditional slipjoint,with a steel that was better than the 420-440a that a lot seem to have,I wnated edge holding over ease of sharpening but didn't quite want to go carbon hence the d2, and a fit and finish that was better than I could do on my first attempt at making one. Partly my motivation was to carry and use a mid to upper range slipjoint to see if I liked it, and use it as a starting point and quality comparison for when I have crack at building one.
If Queen makes it right then good, if not or I have the same problems with another, then I'll just save my money and go custom, as I really thought with the Queen I was buying maybe not the best but the upper end at least of traditional productions

My overall impression is if I built this knife, I'd chalk it up to experience and start again, I certainly wouldn't put my name on it and then charge someone for it
 
To answer your questions individually:

Not sharp to your liking: Very common, the PA factories are not spending a lot of time on the edges.
Gappy: More common on Queen than GEC or Case. GEC's will show a little space between slabs and shields/bolsters every once in a great while - almost never on backspring. Case will show a little on backspring periodically, not usually on shield/bolsters. Queen still has some small gap issues on bolsters and backsprings.
Rubbing liner: No usually on a single blader. You will see it more when sharing backsprings or Case and Queen knives; not near as frequent on GEC's.
Blade play: In respect to a Mountain Man, if you just have a small amount of play - you are probably one of the fortunate ones. The design of the locking bar on this pattern leave it prone to play unless they pull the shim out and pound the joint - in which case you have less/no free flow in the blade action.
Uneven Grind: Fairly common. Having small ripples in Queen D2 models is fairly common. You don't see it much in Case / GEC blades.

Queen's Mountain Man Lockback is a very controversial knife. It has at least some of the problems you mention often, but is still probably their top selling pattern. The non-lock model does not have nearly all these issues as it has a spring instead of a lockbar that helps with gaps and joint tension, which keeps the blade straighter in the frame and alleviates the play.

In your case, rubbing the liner is not expected if it actually is falling on the liner. The blade has enough side movement in the frame, that many people push on it hard enough getting a thumbnail catch that they will cause a rub on the pile side. The rest have been seen fairly often in the last few years; hopefully the new management are going to get this remedied.

If you want the knife with the problems corrected, you should send it to the factory. The chance in getting a replacement with none of these issues is slim.
 
thanks again but your experience does not inspire confidence.
Ill give Queen a chance too fix it but if your experience is anything to go by it makes me wonder why everyone raves about these traditional companies.
It has however given me more confidence in builing my own, anyone want to see a custom aussie slipjoint?
 
Problem is that you asked about a pattern than has been cussed and discussed on this forum ad-nauseum. Queen's congress, GEC's Bullet End, and Case's Seahorse will inspire short stories :D

Most of their patterns are exceptional; some makers more than others. You get where you can custom make knives that match their top 90% of patterns at even a good price premium to theirs - the market will beat a path to your door.
 
did a bit of research before choosing, and heard some concerns but as I said it was one of the few models I really liked and I kind of hoped that as some suggest the quality was on the improve.
I doubt I could build a similar piece and match Queen on quality and price but Its encouraged me to try and exceed the quality and well like all handmade stuff we'll see how much we go on price vs hours etc.
Again do appreciate the feedback I will try and contact Queen today send some pics and explanation and I'll let everyone here know how it pans out.
So is Queen, Case, GEC the top of the heap when it comes to trad. productions or am I missing someone?, I wish Moki or AlMar or someone produced a similar model.
 
I remember hearing a lot of other people voicing disappointment over this particular pattern. Since this was a birthday present for you I can well understand your consternation. I also sympathize as I live outside the US and know how difficult returns can be, then there's potential customs hold ups....

If in the future, you want a traditional style lockback that enjoys excellent build and finish then look at Moki from Japan, really well put together knives indeed. I've had excellent experience of Queen knives with liner-lock, the Teardrop and Copperhead. These are slipjoints with backspring and a liner lock for added security, no gaps or play with these ones. I also rate GEC liner lock models very highly, they're less prone to play or movement than their lockback knives. If you fancy a French Trad knife then Fontenille-Pataud's locking Laguioles are peerless, they cost a bit but they're in another realm.

Thanks, Will
 
Good advice Will but this is where I have to admit my finnicky choice. I really don't like lockbacks despite the quality of Moki and others, I find them fiddly and awkward to close,just my skewed opinion, too many liner, frame and axis locks gorgeousley ergonomic and simple as they are I suppose.
Aussie customs, Police etc. hit the terror alert button if a knife locks or can be opened with one hand or generally is not made of paper, so I was trying to get something I could let them see without filling thier ignorant hearts with fear. I'll check out the lagioules though as a bit extra price was the the deciding factor.
Does anyone have any custom names or suggestions for a similar piece that would run under $400? I'm flogging some spydies benchmades and bokers and such and could problably talk myself into spending the money on a custom.
What I really really wanted was a good solid slipjopint, single blade 3-4 inch, high end stainless steel, syntehtic handle CF or g10 or something, stainless bolster, and maybe if it doesn't look too awful some kind of pocket clip.Pretty much a slipjoint lge Sebenza.
The mountain man and the new Case CF models were the closest I could find production wise. The case only has 420 steel I belive and no bolster but otherwise looks very nice the MM won out with me due to the bolster and D2 but now Ive got the fit n finish issues
 
I've heard a few people say the slipjoint Mountain man knives are actually higher quality than the lockback versions. I don't have a slipjoint version but i do have two Queen Mountain Man lockbacks. Great looking knives with QC issues. The one i bought new required some serious work to fix a poor grind. Had some up down left-right blade play. I picked up a used second one here on the forum, much better grind and less blade play. Sadly my $40 Chinese made Boker clone of the same model has better fit and finish and no blade play at all. I like the look of a lot of Queen knives but i won't buy one again unless i can see it and handle it in person first.
 
I've sent two knives back to Queen for major problems (one far worse than what you describe and one just a bit worse than yours). They sent me two new knives. The new owners of Queen Cutllery will honor the warranty.
I have a Mountain Man that had blade play and the blade hitting the backspring, as well as an off center blade. I sharpened out the ding in the blade, krinked the blade to center it and peened and polished the pivot. Now I have a very good, solid work knife.

IMG_1513copy_zpsfa9a106e.jpg
 
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deskil Ive sharpened out the ding it just did next time it snapped shut a little, but I'm intruiged explain "krink" please I'm assuming wedge it to centre while you reppen the pivot, and did you use a shim for this?
 
Thanks for the link, I dont know about krinking a $100 d2 knife I hear a tink at the end of that and takin that much metal off till it clears the backspring kind of leaves it thick behind the edge, though I do have 72" belt grinder to speed it up, I think Id rather have the little notch and let it wear in.
At this point Ive contacted Queen and will send it in and see what response I get.
 
I have a Queen MM in 1095, with Sambar stag scales and it has no gaps, blade is centered, and absolutely no play side to side or up and down. I have had it for several years, but have been using it as an EDC around the house for about a year. If my fingers are clean, and the blade is too, I can pinch the blade with my thumb and middle finger and open the blade one handed. I have been very pleased with this MM, but understand other folks may not have been so lucky with their MM. John
 
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