quenching 01 in H2O

L

LaMess

Joined
Nov 24, 2001
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120
Well i read it here so after grinding a little knife out of 1/16" O1 i got her hot and stuck her in water. It came out really hard and so brittle than when I held it in my hand and ran a file across it it made a pretty little ping and broke in half.

I don't have anything for comparision yet but at 10X the steel's grain is pretty small.

If a fella has a snit during this process is it called a temper tantrum?

regards

Lynn
 
I posted a reply the other day suggesting that 1095 (and other simple, high carbon steels such as 0-1) be quenched in warm oil. Another post suggested that 1095 was a water quenching steel and would not harden in oil. I don't have as much experience heat treating as many makers on this forum, but I have never read anywhere that 1095, 0-1 or other simple steels should be quenched in water. Wayne Goddard's book "The Wonder of Knifemaking" and David Boye's book suggest warm oil. Mr. Goddard says his 1st rule of heat treating is to never quench ANY steel in water unless it will not harden in oil first. I have personally hardened several 1095 blades in ATF and had great success. A really thick blade might not harden in oil and require a water or brine quench, but usually water means increased risk of cracking or warpage.

Just my $.02

Dan
 
Yes, O-1 is an oil hardening steel. As in O=oil 1.:D
W1,W2, are water hardenable steels. All the rest is not so straight forward though.;)
 
It always suprises me how easy it is to break them. I was forgeing one Sunday and put the cool end in a bucket of water to localize the heat. It wasn't even red but cracked like a piece of plate glass. Use oil from now on.:mad:
 
I've used water on all my 1095 blades (room temp) I had only one crack and that was because I treated it twice without annealing in between. If you search the net for treat info,all steel manu. reccomend oil for O1 and water for 1095. Just plug in heat treat 1095 or O1. If you want a nice yakiba line go with 1095 or 10 series. If you want an easy non warp treat go with O1.
 
1095, O1, W2, D2, etc., etc. are all tool steels. Manufacturers recommend what is best for making tools from these steels; their recommendations are not for blades made from these steels. If you are getting warpage or breakage from 1095 or O1, you are using too fast a quench.
 
Bah. I quenched O-1 in water before. Some cracked, but most didnt. U cant keep it in the water too long, and you have to do an edge quench. I would get it hot, put edge in water for a few seconds, gotta feel the vibrations stop, then pull out, wait a sec, then put back in. WOrks ok when you get used to it.
 
I respectfully bow out of the water vs. oil quench debate. I obviously don't have enough experience to be offering any advice here. I had just hoped to help out some beginners the way I was helped not so long ago.
Sorry...
Signing off...:(
 
Didnt mean to be rude, pretender :)

Its just i find it funny that everyone is against water quenching, but it produces great results! you just have to practice and be careful and watchful and temper IMMEDIATELY. I water quenched an L6 blade from an old saw..it cracked about halfway the width of the blade, but I havent been able to break it yet...and i've been trying!! Beating it on the edge of a metal stand, right on the crack, nothing. Started taking chunks out of the anvil on the vise, and couldnt really bend it that much. its tough!!!! Water is nice for edge quench to get a curve for japanese or persian style stuff, just go slow, and anneal between the heat treats. i did it 3 times, once to set curve, 2nd time was nice, but i over tempered, so i annealed and did again..sucker cuts nice now :)

Water just takes more practice. Oil is more controlled and oredictable and stable, but water is so much more fun :)
 
Guys, as most of you know I have been working on 01 for quite some time now. I have tried pretty much every quenching media around. Combine that with many tempering formulas.

My results, stick with oil for 01. I have not yet been able to get a blade to the proper temp and get it to stay in one piece with a water quench. I have tried hot water, cold water, brine you name it. I have had some blades survive and them make it through tempering but they had almost no toughness. Add to that the fact that I had to drop the temp to the very rock bottom of the usable scale.

01 is oil hardening, it works so why mess with it. If some are getting good results with water, I say great! But that is better left to experamenting than making a working knife.

As for hamons. Yes, you can get more detailed hamons out of 10XX steels. However, it is possible to get figured hamons out of 01. It just ain't easy.
 
it is possible to get figured hamons out of 01. It just ain't easy.
Click to expand...

I would really like to know how you do that! Can you share your secrets with the unwashed?

Lynn
 
Clay coat the blade with refractory cement (get it at any hardware store,its used to repair furnaces/fireplaces)about 1/4 thick leaving approx. 1/3 to the edge covered or just cover whatever pattern you want or edge exposed. Heat the edge to crtitcal and quench. You will need either a glass bead sandblaster or a wirebrush to get it all off. Polish as normal than place in a hot vinger/water bath and polish inbetween treatments (use the finest polishing you have) Dont go more than 5 or 6 times it gets grainy looking. For the acid solution use about 1 to 7 ratio. You will have a hamon in O1 its just not as detailed as the 10 series.
 
Wish it were that easy. That will only give you a straight or at best a slightly uneven hamon. It take more prep to get a very wavy hamon.

And I ain't a tellen :D;).

<a href=http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/R.W.Clark/Pana0011.jpg><img src="http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/R.W.Clark/Pana0011.jpg" width=240 height=160 border=4></A>
 
There's a first time for everything. I've never had a knifemaker NOT tell his secrets. Why would you post here otherwise?
 
you can put a Hamon on o1 if you want to I do it and if you do it with clay
it would depend on the thickness of the clay and form
you put on the edge for the Hamon shape.
this was used by master sword makers in Japan for years and years
each would have his own mark (the shape of the Hamon)
with this method by them it is quenched in good old H2O.
 the clay protects the blade from shock and differential tempers at the same time.
 I'm not one to question their ways.;)
 
Do you really want everything laid out on a silver platter? Just following receipts may make one a good cook, but it takes an understanding of what and why to become a chef. I could tell you step by step what to do and you could get the same results I do. However what have you really learned. You have not added to you knowledge of steel structures or of how and why steels do what they do. I have gladly provided the basic starting structure time and again. From there I leave it to the maker to figure out what the missing parts are. Remember this is supposed to be near impossible to do. Now that we know it can be done, if you really want to do it, start putting the pieces together just as I did. Figure it out for yourself, and you will have earned that feeling of knowing YOU did it.
 
Someone once told me that 50% of any new invention or discovery is knowing for certain that what you are trying to do is possible.
Do a search for "hamon" in shop talk and the archive, and you'll have more than enough info to accomplish it. Even an amateur ghetto bladesmith such as myself pulls it off now and then.
 
Oh By the way
being a tool and die maker by trade helps too.
and I took my Knocks the past 30 years.
and I don't mind helping to make better makers.
if you learn buy others mistakes you'll have more
time to make more of you're own.
;)
 
And Howard Clark makes katanas out of L6 with martensite edges and Bainite backs. It took him years and a lot of experimentation to perfect his heat treat. I wouldn't expect him to dish out his process just because I asked him. (Not that I don't want to know mind you!)
Every knifemaker I've talked to was more than willing to help with the basics, and far more in most cases, in fact I feel it's our obligation. However, at some point we have to start putting the pieces together on our own.

Now we know a nice wavy hamon on O1 is possible and that L6 can be heat treated so that the back is Bainite. All the clues are available, it will just require lots of work on our parts to figure them out if we decide to pursue the process.
 
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