Question about factory second identification

ehhh

ehhh

Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
562
Well, sent an email to Spyderco customer service 3 days ago but got no response...:confused:

I've searched around about factory second identification and found that the notch is always on the right side of the blade (if you point the blade away from yourself). Are seconds ever identified with a notch on the left side? I got a brand new knife with a tiny ding on the left side of the spine and I'm curious. It certainly doesn't look like a identifying notch since it's so tiny and took me a while to spot, but I'd like to be sure. Are notches ever put in the left side?

Thanks.

And since I'm here already, is it normal for micarta to have light spots? (not talking about the color of different layers, but little spots that look worn or undyed)
 
As far as I know, the notch is always cut on the right side behind the Spyderhole, except if that area has jimping. On the models with jimping on the thumb ramp, I believe they move the notch to the right side in front of the Spyderhole. The notches I have seen and seen pictures of leave no doubt that they are notches and not mere dings.
 
You might want to take a look at the page below, which I put together with the help of a number of other Spyderco collectors. Shows what the "notch" looks like on a number of different models, and more importantly that they are not all of a standard shape and size.

http://www.paulberetta.com/spy101_notched_seconds.htm

Have never seen one notched on the left, but won't go so far as to say none are. I do however think that if it were ever done, it would only be done on LH knives, for the same reason it's normally done on the RH side - to keep it reasonably inconspicuous in normal use.

As for the micarta issue, the answer would be, it depends. Of the models I am familiar with, the micarta on the large and small Dyads, the Goddards, and the Shabaria seems very inconsistent in color, while that on the others is considerably more uniform. Micarta also tends to bleach out if left in the sun, so that can become an issue as well on older knives which may have spent years in a dealer's display case. Then again, spotty color could be the reason a particular specimen was labeled a second.

What model do you have?
 
That's actually the page that I got most of my info from :thumbup:

The knife is a Street Beat and the ding is quite small inside one of the jimps. It is much smaller than the jimping itself, so it actually took me over a day of playing with to see. I have a feeling it is just a ding being that it's so small (~.5mm) and on the left side. The box is not marked with "XX" either. The micarta is "bleached out" in a few small areas. Not a big problem, but not expected of a $150 knife this size...

This knife was also purchased from a distributor, not a dealer, so it would be even weirder if it was a factory second since Spyderco sells them direct.
I'd certainly like to send it in to Spyderco to have them check it out and possibly replace it.

The ding (very small):

dingyd1.jpg


Micarta:

micartals9.jpg


It'd be great if someone from Spyderco could chime in here, since I'm not going to get any help from their customer service department anytime soon...who on this forum could I talk to by PMs?
If I can replace it with Spyderco directly, that would save me a lot of trouble.
 
Well, the three moderators listed at the bottom of the page for this forum are all with Spyderco, and I believe Joyce is in charge of W&R. I don't know if any of them are around a computer, though. They had some knife shows going in Europe, and they may not be back and caught up yet.
 
Ah, perhaps that is why no one is answering my email?

Well I sent tazkristi a pm since that is the most active one (and I don't think I should be bother Mr. Glesser with things he pays other people to do :D )

Thanks for the responses so far guys.
 
This is interesting to talk about. I have heard conflicting information about what really constitutes a factory second Spyder.
About 14 months ago I came into 2 Spyderco Titanium Peter Herbst models. It was really weird because even 2 of the top Spyder Gurus ( Deacon & UK Ken) didn't even know much about the model so I was forced to go to the Halls of Golden Colorado.
I had heard so much rumor and conflicting information about the Titanium Peter Herbst model. Because the vast majority of them did end up as factory seconds. What I did was to send both of the knives to Spyderco and I had them to authenticate them. Not only did they confirm that they were indeed authentic, factory first models they were even kind enough to send me a letter of authenticity to back it up. I ended up selling/trading both of them and it sure gave me piece of mind knowing that the recipients got a good, factory first knife. I know that is a bit of trouble to go through but in that case it was worth the time involved for me. The Ti Herbst truly is one of the most obscure Spyderco models out there. Not a favorite of mine but several other collectors loved it. I know that may be too much trouble for the average guy/gal to want to take on but at least that is another valid option to consider. JD
 
I certainly wouldn't mind sending it in to Spyderco. I want to know if this is a second purely because I want to exchange it whether with Spyderco or the distributor I got it from (preferably Spyderco). I don't find these things acceptable for a small $150 fixed blade, and if it's a second I don't think it should be with a distributor (being sold as a factory first) to begin with. I don't really plan on selling it, so a letter of authenticity won't really help me out (though it would be cool to have). I really like the knife and want to keep it around as a collectible and possibly use it. If I had bought it as a pure user, I don't think I would mind so much about these little details.

I would like to find out from Spyderco if they would replace it before I spend the money to send it in though.
 
The light color areas you are seeing are perfectly normal on a contoured linen micarta handle like that on the Street Beat. If you notice, it follows the countour of the handle. It is caused by different shades of color in the cloth, different orientation of the fibers, different angle of exposure, or a combination of any two or all of them, in the various same-colored layers. Not all of either the light or the dark alternating layers are totally uniform in color. Personally I find the variations rather attractive. They make the material look more natural and less artificial. But, like most things, it's a matter of taste.

I can see how the tiny ding in the jimping could have escaped the attention of QC. Even in your highly magnified photograph it would be extremely difficult to spot without the the circle around it. I can't say it that it's normal, but then again, I have never examined any of my knives under magnification either.
 
The micarta seems odd to me because those spots in the micarta aren't quite like the patterning of layers and only appear in a couple spots (not the entire layer). They look kinda ugly since they're tan vs grey/black, in my opinion (I don't like "character" on my new knives :p ). I've never handled micarta before though, which is why I asked.

The ding is quite small, but is visible to the naked eye. Measured with my calipers, it is about 0.5mm wide. I spotted it when I noticed it reflecting light. I think the fact that it's inside the jimping makes it much less noticeable, though. Had it been on the straight part of the tang, I think it would be pretty simple to spot without any assistance.

They certainly aren't major issues, but something I just wasn't expecting from such an expensive little knife. It's really up to Spyderco if they feel it warrants replacement or not. I have decided if Spyderco doesn't replace it, then I'll just keep it since exchanging it would be a hassle (send it to the dealer who will send it back to the distributor, etc).

I will admit I am a very picky consumer (not just knives), though. I even like my user knives to be well finished :foot:

For your enjoyment, some pics:

streetbeatrk3.jpg


sheathedor2.jpg


bladele8.jpg


handlede9.jpg


bladerightlx8.jpg


bowiesnf1.jpg
 
ehhh said:
The micarta seems odd to me because those spots in the micarta aren't quite like the patterning of layers and only appear in a couple spots (not the entire layer). They look kinda ugly since they're tan vs grey/black, in my opinion (I don't like "character" on my new knives :p ). I've never handled micarta before though, which is why I asked.

The ding is quite small, but is visible to the naked eye. Measured with my calipers, it is about 0.5mm wide. I spotted it when I noticed it reflecting light. I think the fact that it's inside the jimping makes it much less noticeable, though. Had it been on the straight part of the tang, I think it would be pretty simple to spot without any assistance.

They certainly aren't major issues, but something I just wasn't expecting from such an expensive little knife. It's really up to Spyderco if they feel it warrants replacement or not. I have decided if Spyderco doesn't replace it, then I'll just keep it since exchanging it would be a hassle (send it to the dealer who will send it back to the distributor, etc).

I will admit I am a very picky consumer (not just knives), though. I even like my user knives to be well finished :foot:
Click to expand...
Well, you asked if spots in micarta, like those in your Perrin, where normal. They answer is that, in the context of a knife like the Street Beat, where the micarta used is linen micarta and the handles are contoured rather than flat, such extra light spots are pefectly normal. If you find them unappealing, that is certainly your right, but it does not make them a defect. If you do decide to keep the knife, you might consider applying very small amount of mineral oil to the spots and buffing them gently with a soft cloth.

As for the ding, to me there's a significant difference between "well finished" and "flawless", especially on something that is marketed as a tool, rather than a work of art. But, like most things in life, everyone's opinion on what they can reasonably expect from any product differs, and you are certainly entitled to yours.
 
It's good to know that it's not so odd for micarta to have those spots.

As for the ding, yes it is small, but i can honestly say that out of all of my knives, this is the only one to exhibit such a flaw from the factory. You're right, everyone does have their own opinion on these things, and like I said I am very picky. I like my expensive knives to be nearly flawless and my work knives well finished. This Perrin, imo, is nearly flawless. The ding just caused me worry because I know that Spyderco uses notches to identify factory seconds, and I would rather not have paid good money for a second. I generally don't see dings on new knives either, and it may affect resale value if I ever decide to sell it (though I currently have no plans to).
 
Honestly, nothing that is shown in the photographs would warrant Spyderco replacing the knife. The mark on the spine is tiny, and the variations on the Micarta are not uncommon, as others have already stated. I'm rather picky about my knives too, but you need to know where to draw the line and what to expect from a mid-range production knife. What's visible in your photographs is perfectly acceptable.
 
To each their own.

I am mainly worried that it is a second, and I would still like one of the Spyderco people to chime in their thoughts. It would be much appreciated.

I think it is a little different when you are actually handling the knife versus viewing it through a single photograph as well. It is pretty unnoticeable, yes, but it is not that small. Had it been on the flat of the blade, I would return it immediately without asking if it was a second or not. Being where it is, it is a borderline problem for me. If it is a hassle to exchange it, I won't bother.

My expectations have been set fairly high by my Paramilitary. It is perhaps the best made knife in my entire collection, trumping knives that cost me twice as much. I draw my lines through experience. I have never handled micarta before, so I asked. I have never seen a new knife come with a ding, and I know that Spyderco marks their seconds with notches on the spine so it raises concerns. Just as I have come to expect Cold Steel to have uneven grinds, I have come to expect Spydercos to be flawless to the naked eye. Of course, I don't own many Spydercos yet so I'm still learning ;)
 
There is absolutely nothing on the knife that would show it to be a second. The mark denoting a second, while small, is easily seen and obviously intentionally cut into the spine with a file. It is also located on the righthand side of the spine on every Spyderco second I have ever seen. I only mentioned that, in the case of a dedicated left hand knife it MIGHT be on the opposite side. Finally, as you yourself pointed out, you purchased your knife from a Spyderco distributor, not from an individual. Seconds are never sold by Spyderco to distributors or dealers. The only way Spyderco seconds can be initially purchased is in person, at the factory. After that, as with any product, Spyderco has no control of subsequent resale on the secondary market. In short, there is absolutely no logical reason to think your knife is a second.
 
Hi Ehhh,

It is not a second. There have been no seconds sold on the Street Beat, and as mentioned, we do not sell 2nds to dealers or distributors (unless they happen to be at the annual 2nds sale in Golden).

I think "flawless" is a bit much to expect, especially from a production piece. While we strive for "excellence" in every piece, we cannot nor would we try to claim "flawless".

Fred did not design the knife to be a collector piece. I think you should use the knife. Performance should be closer to excellence.

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Ehhh,

It is not a second. There have been no seconds sold on the Street Beat, and as mentioned, we do not sell 2nds to dealers or distributors (unless they happen to be at the annual 2nds sale in Golden).

I think "flawless" is a bit much to expect, especially from a production piece. While we strive for "excellence" in every piece, we cannot nor would we try to claim "flawless".

Fred did not design the knife to be a collector piece. I think you should use the knife. Performance should be closer to excellence.

sal
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply Mr. Glesser. I was going to do just that if I was to keep the knife: use it. Put some of my own dings into it to go with the one already there :p

Nice to know for sure that it's not a second, though I figured it wasn't. Not saying the fit & finish isn't excellent because for the most part it is (the grinds are absolutely wonderful), I just don't generally expect dings in a new knife.

-Jon
 
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