Question about GEC backlocks.

thejamppa

thejamppa

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Aug 20, 2009
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Hello!

I am making quick survey here among owners of Great Eastern Backlock users: Do your GEC Backlocks have up and down bladeplay when blade is locked? Is small amount acceptable?

I am decideding wether to change my 721110 but retailer tested the 2nd sample and it also had wiggle when blade was locked. If there should be no bladeplay, I will send GEC for fixing.

- Jani
 
I have about 5 of the GEC lockbacks and if I remember correctly 3 or 4 have a touch of vertical play. Not when in normal use or shaking the knife, but when holding the blade and moving it up and down. Mine have come directly from distributors, but as far as I know, were not checked for vertical play by the dealers. They were picked for scale beauty by me :).

One also had side to side play. That I can handle and fix myself. I don't think that the vertical play can be fixed without replacing parts. There is a slight length problem in the tang or the backspring. We're talking less than a sheet foil shorter width so the tang and the backspring fit together without movement.

The Queen Mt. Men, which this reminds me of, also have this a lot. Many of mine have it. I mention the Queens since the founders of GEC are from Queen originally, so the culture that this is OK may be there.

I'm glad your dealer mentioned his have play as well. I don't think many dealers, even when asked, would call this "play" by their standards. Either because they have seen knives with really large play and this doesn't come close, or their methodology to determine play is not the same as yours or mine.

So the question, is it acceptable. I don't like it, but I am accepting it. I would like to see it disappear. I don't recall seeing any Bucks, Bokers, Bulldogs...Rough Riders :), with this. On the other hand, maybe I need to check those again.
 
One No.72 Lockback. No vertical play but some side play which I don't much like,slight mind but then, Moki ,Böker, Buck don't have ANY.

No problems at all with the 72 Liner Locks though.
 
I checked all 4 of mine. They all have a slight movement; If you hold the blade and handle, and rock it back and forth, there is some movement -- enough to feel, but not enough to see. 2 of the 4 have a slight side play as well, slight. I'd prefer they didn't have any, but I wonder if they would be as easy to open or as smooth. I also don't know if the vertical will get tighter with wear, or looser. I'm not sending mine back, though.
 
I guess I just got so sick of knives that you had to push the blade open or closed because the resistance in the joint didn't allow the backspring to do it alone; that I probably don't penalize a little side movement in the joint as much as others. During final assembly they "shim" the joint as they are peening it specifically to allow a little slack such that the backspring can do its job with ease. I have fixed several of them but usually end up putting them back almost like they were because when I took out the movement, the snap went with it. It is a very fine line to get both.

As for in-line movement, that does appear to be a tolerance issue. And again I would rather have a hint of extra space over a lockback that you have to give the little extra nudge to get the full lock and then kill your finger to break the lockbar open because tolerances are so tight. Queen has gotten enough complaints about movement in their lockbacks that the last couple of shipments I have gotten nearly takes a pair of pliers to release the lock; but that baby don't have any play in locked position.

For the most part, I think I could probably argue both sides of these issues. But I have not noticed any extremes in the ones I have handled. Take one of those babies apart and put it back together if you want to gain a little more respect for the complications. If all of our factories could afford to have the latest technologies and robots doing all the tolerance work; I guess we would have a lot tighter knives. That seems to be the general direction the factories are taking, but probably not affordable for the American makers.

One thing I have noticed a lot is the tip of blades sitting too high. Easy to fix, but not any easier for me than the factory....
 
knifeswapper said:
I guess I just got so sick of knives that you had to push the blade open or closed because the resistance in the joint didn't allow the backspring to do it alone; that I probably don't penalize a little side movement in the joint as much as others. During final assembly they "shim" the joint as they are peening it specifically to allow a little slack such that the backspring can do its job with ease. I have fixed several of them but usually end up putting them back almost like they were because when I took out the movement, the snap went with it. It is a very fine line to get both.

As for in-line movement, that does appear to be a tolerance issue. And again I would rather have a hint of extra space over a lockback that you have to give the little extra nudge to get the full lock and then kill your finger to break the lockbar open because tolerances are so tight. Queen has gotten enough complaints about movement in their lockbacks that the last couple of shipments I have gotten nearly takes a pair of pliers to release the lock; but that baby don't have any play in locked position.

...

One thing I have noticed a lot is the tip of blades sitting too high. Easy to fix, but not any easier for me than the factory....
Click to expand...


Ah, that IS the other side of the issue. I agree with this completely.

I can frequently tighten the bolster sightly to remove play and still have adequate snap, but sometimes it is an iffy thing. Sometimes there is no optimal tightness vs. snap setting, you have one or the other. In those cases I give up bear trap snap for a more lazy snap and tighter side to side. Probably a tolerance thing again, width of spring vs. width of blade tang or something.

I had forgotten about the lockbar release issue with a tight fitting lock. It can be done, but the tolerances must be tight as a fraction of a fraction of an inch either way will cause problems. I'm not sure which I prefer. Probably vertical play and a easier lock release.

Funny about the blades sitting high. A few weeks ago I noticed numerous shallow parallel cuts on my thumb. Each day I would have another. I thought it was a sharp edge on one of the liners or something. Finally I determined it was from the blade tip of the lockbacks where my thumb would dig into the groove when idly "fondling" the knife in my back pocket. I ground the kick down on the users.
 
I have another "traditional" lockback here that I like to use; a fairly new Case 61225L in red bone. It, too, has both vertical and side "play" that is very slight and only noticeable if you grab the blade and handle and try to deliberately move it that way. Like knifeswapper said, I think a certain tolerance is needed for the knife to work and feel right. I can see where it would bother some people, but without some space in the joint, the knife would be very difficult to move.

Also, knives like Buck 110s sometimes get sent back to Buck because the new owners can't unlock them at all! :eek: I've had more than one that were very difficult to unlock when they were new and needed a considerable amount of break-in in order to function "normally".
 
well I checked my 72 and it does have some slight vertical play when opened - however I had never even noticed it before, I had to look for it.
 
i've handled many 100 year old knives with extensive use that i'm sure started out with a little wiggle, but after all this time the majority were not excessive in blade play. also i have'nt heard of one lock failure of a gec in the field.
dennis
 
I got one with lateral play, but no vertical play. I got a replacement from a dealer that was better, but still had a small amount of lateral play. I sent it to GEC and got one back with no lateral play, and tight vertical lockup. Yes, the tip sits too high also.
The knife is pretty, but the tip is still high. This one may need a pouch for pocket carry.
 
This has been discussed extensively over at the Spyderco forum. It is perfectly normal.
 
Maybe Harry, but Spyderco is still bit different from GEC not just knives but also how they put them together... I am perfectionist and I admit that. My Delica 4 had major bladeplay, installing new sparprt kit elimanted it almost entirely. Delica 4 FFG has no blade play. My Buck's don't have up and down blade play either.
 
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