question about grinds...

C

crbauhs

Joined
Dec 2, 2007
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ok i know i am opening a can of worms here but here i go.

1. how can you tell different grinds apart?
2. What are different grinds used for i.e. scandanavian, hollow, chisel...
3. Which grinds do you prefer?
4. Are certain grinds better with certain steels?

i am new to these sorts of things in knives. i used to think all knives we sharpened the same adn whatnot. no i am not a little kid, i am 19, i have jsut never been that into knives untill now and would love to know more. thanks for your help guys. and i just dont have the time to go looking throguh all the old posts to find if there is one like this. dang search function adn over loaded servers:mad:
 
crbauhs said:
1. how can you tell different grinds apart?
2. What are different grinds used for i.e. scandanavian, hollow, chisel...
3. Which grinds do you prefer?
4. Are certain grinds better with certain steels?
Click to expand...

In my limited experience, I believe that you can tell the different grinds best by eyeballing! (Maybe with a loupe :p )

Question 2 I will leave for the experts.

Question3, in my experience, convex grinds are by far the best for the things I use a knife for.

Question 4. That's a tough one. I like convex best on all of the steels that I have personal experience with. 420, 440, AUS8, S30V, A-2, D-2, CPM D-2, 1095, 1085, 52-100, 0170-6, CarbonV. But other grinds might work better on steels I'm not experienced with. :confused:
 
a chisel grind is purported to be stronger because there is more mass behind the edge.

a hollow grind should be a better "slicer" because there will be less friction created by contact with the blade and media.

i like them all, though i lean away from convex grinds because i am unable to maintain the edge properly.
 
MORIMOTOM said:
i like them all, though i lean away from convex grinds because i am unable to maintain the edge properly.
Click to expand...

:confused::confused: I came to love convex because, for me at least, it is so easy to maintain the edge. :):)

You never need a stone. Just a strop, if you maintain it regularly, and a piece of sandpaper if you neglect it. :):)
 
whenever i have tried, i get one of two results:

1. end up dulling the edge from too much pressure or wrong angle.
2. the knife is not much sharper than when i started.

ive been using the edge pro, and have found i can put a wicked v grind far easier than i can a convex with a freehand method.


im just a convex-tard.
 
Currently I'm a fan of a slightly "toothy" convex grind. I agree that usually you can get a pretty good idea of a knife's grind by visual inspection, though this plan sometimes does not work.

If you sharpen your edge with a belt sander, it may look like a flat secondary bevel but people will tell you it's convexed since you used a belt sander. I don't doubt that it is, but it can be so minutely convexed that it's hard to tell without instrumentation....or else my eyes are really that bad. :eek:

What is even more confusing is when lots of people have different names for the same thing. I'm not saying colorful use of language is a bad thing, but it can be confusing at times (e.g. as far as I know Moran, appleseed, and convex mean the same thing in the context of blade grinds).

Here's some reference material for ya:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grind
http://www.worldknives.com/info/blade-geometry-by-joe-talamadge-25.html
http://www.balisongtimes.com/index.php/Blade_grind
 
MORIMOTOM said:
a chisel grind is purported to be stronger because there is more mass behind the edge.
Click to expand...

I've never quite understood this concept. Won't a V-bevel and a chisel bevel of equal depth have the same cross sectional area and, presumably, the same mass? If one holds the angles constant on both grinds, a V-grind will have a larger cross sectional area due to it's slightly larger depth.
 
as we are talking about grinds...

i came across 2 meanings:
1 blade from spine to near the sharpened edge
2 sharpened egde geometry

I have a few hollow ground blades (like kabar impact and cold steel finn bear) wich are hollow ground (blade geometry) but the sharpoened edge is normal, used a stone and got them pretty sharp (5$ stone...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grind
http://www.coldsteel.com/faqs.html#Saber and Flat

so...which one is correct? (i think 2nd)

Maxx
 
typically, it's discussion of the primary grind. You can convex and chisel an edge bevel as well, though hollow grinding and edge bevel wouldn't be too noticeable - unless you used a really small diameter wheel, or are talking about a zero edge.
 
so eg. my kabar impact that is hollow ground is more probable to have a primary hollow ground blade and a straight ground cutting edge\bevel right?
thanks
maxx
 
DrThunder88 said:
I've never quite understood this concept. Won't a V-bevel and a chisel bevel of equal depth have the same cross sectional area and, presumably, the same mass? If one holds the angles constant on both grinds, a V-grind will have a larger cross sectional area due to it's slightly larger depth.
Click to expand...

in a true chisel primary bevel, where one side is flat and unground (no bevel), there is more mass behind the edge. a v grind would remove some metal from the other side of the edge, and ultimately there is less mass behind the edge.

a chisel grind only removes metal from one side, a v grind from both sides.
 
no, it's right. If the inclusive angle is the same, the chisel grind and v grind should have the same amount of metal behind the edge. The V-grind might even be stronger because there is metal on both sides of the actual edge instead of just one.

a chisel grind might have some advantages for specific applications but I don't want one for general utility.
 
SaMX said:
no, it's right. If the inclusive angle is the same, the chisel grind and v grind should have the same amount of metal behind the edge. The V-grind might even be stronger because there is metal on both sides of the actual edge instead of just one.

a chisel grind might have some advantages for specific applications but I don't want one for general utility.
Click to expand...

but a typical v grind has 20 degrees per side, 40 degrees inclusive.

a typical chisel is about, say 25 degrees, but only on one side, so 25 inclusive.
 
Chisel vs V-grind:
Draw a V. Notice the thickness behind the edge.
Rotate the drawing until one arm of the V is vertical. Notice that the thickness behind the edge hasn't changed!
Therefore--same total angle--same thickness, same strength.

In general certain grinds are better for certain jobs, rather than being better for certain steels.
i.e.--hollow grind works best with shallow cuts or cuts to soft materials--eg. meat.
--flat grind works best with harder materials--eg. fruit and vegetables, where a hollow grind would bind on deep cuts.
--convex edge is the strongest and works best on hardest materials, and where an early 'wedging' effect is useful--eg. wood, general duties.
--chisel grind is usually reserved for cuts where cutting needs to be done flat to a surface--chisels, planes, and some vegetable chopping.
--sabre grind gives the strongest overall blade useful where some non-cutting strength is a requirement--eg. swords, batonning, prying.
Greg
 
Greg said:
Chisel vs V-grind:
Draw a V. Notice the thickness behind the edge.
Rotate the drawing until one arm of the V is vertical. Notice that the thickness behind the edge hasn't changed!
Therefore--same total angle--same thickness, same strength.

Greg
Click to expand...

but the "v" is only the primary bevel. the blade extends at a different angle relative to the grind away from the edge. you arent accounting for the rest of the blade.

in a chisel, the back of the blade extends at 180 degrees away from the edge.


i dont know, maybe my perception is incorrect.


after some thought, maybe i was thinking of a flat vs hollow grind.
 
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