Question about locks

Waldganger

Waldganger

Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Messages
1,180
Hey there Knuts!

I've got a question regarding lock types.

I figure the back locks are very sturdy when done correctly, although make it harder to open and close a knife.

Liner locks are great for one hand opening and closing, fairly sturdy, but not as great as frame locks.

I've seen the axis lock. I have a question about this. I've seen posted here that these can be considered a gravity knife because when you pull on the axis the blade swings freely.
In Australia it is illegal to import gravity knives, yet the other day I saw a cheap china made knife in a shop that had a knock off axis lock.
I asked to have a look, and whilst it didn't function very well on my third go I managed to flick it like a gravity knife. How did he manage to get one?
I don't really care because I don't really want an axis lock knife, I'm just curious how that got slipped through.

My main question. The one I want answers to is...

The button lock mechanism. how does it function? If I press the button does the blade swing free like a gravity knife?
or is the constant pressure on the blade?
Is the lock fairly strong? If I get the button lock on something it'll be for plenty of use but not abuse, so equal to liner locks is ok.

Thanks for your time people.

Happy cutting
 
It really depends on the exact wording of your law and who is interpreting it. A true gravity knife is a bit like an out the front automatic without the spring. The blade is latched solidly and falls open by gravity alone when released. The Axis doesn't qualify as a true gravity knife, as the blade can easily be opened without releasing the lock (it doesn't lock shut).

Many knife laws are written to include butterfly knives and basically any knife which can be opened easily without touching the blade. Other laws are interpreted to include such knives even though they are not within the letter of the law. All were implemented by politicians who wish to look like they are doing something about crime without actually doing something about crime (apart from making things easier for criminals, of course).

So in answer to the question of how they got the knock-off into the country, it either slipped through customs uninspected, or it was lawyered through by someone who could prove that it didn't meet the letter of the law for an illegal weapon. That won't do you much good if you get stopped with it.

As for the button lock, the only button locks I have personally seen were on (illegal) switchblades. They are fairly strong and should wear well if properly made.
 
My "axis" type folders do not gravity open ... but ... they will open with inertia which may be explicitly illegal in some countries, states, or cities, etc. If a knife opens by gravity it should not take three trys, it should fall open with the release of the lock mechanism. I would also like to hear some input from someone on the button locks (non-automatic) as I do not have one and have also been curious about their operation for some time.

WOOK
 
I have a Griptilian with the Axis Lock and the action is stiff enough that the knife cannot be opened with gravity alone. I think the Axis Lock is just as secure as a quality lockback design.

As far as the laws in Australia, I don't really know. But some of the most common lockback knives can be flipped open - that doesn't make them "gravity" knives.

I don't care for liner locks, but that's a preference of mine related to the aesthetics and the old "Finger Crossing the Path of the Blade" argument. I admit that a well-made liner lock can be very safe and secure, but nothing is worse than a cheap liner lock.

-Bob
 
My only button lock is a William Henry. It wouldn't "gravity open" when it was new, but it will now. The same could be said for my Axis and Arc lock knives.

With any of these locks, the reason the knife will or will not open is the tension on, or slickness of the pivot- it really has nothing to do with the type of lock. As mentioned, you would have to find your area's exact definition of a "gravity knife".

I can tell you from experience, it is better to know your local knife laws before you need them. If you can convince the LEO that you know what you're talking about it could save you: a night in jail, an impounded vehicle, a trip to court and a battle to get your knife back (and the damage done to it while it was in custody).
 
MVF - When you depress your button the blade doesn't free up a little? I just don't want to spend 600 on a knife to have it stopped by customs because they think its a gravity/centrifugal force release.

Thanks guys
 
most button lock type knives i have handled will not gravity open but might be opened by centrifugal force which by the letter of the law is not a gravity opening knife. The same applies for the axis lock and when done correctly that style of lock is the current strongest lock available on todays market. I have read a few documents where the benchmade axis lock held up to 800 pounds for the lock to fail and the knife to close while the SOG Arc lock actually maxed the testing machine withstanding over 1000 pounds of force.
 
There is no one "button lock". Several different mechanisms use a button to release the lock. But unless they are autos, they don't need to lock it closed.

For example, the MOD CQD manual series open by thumbstud. Once they open, they lock in place, and it takes depressing a button, called a Plunge Lock, to release the lock.

In the auto versions of these knives, pushing the button releases the blade so the spring can deploy it into locked position.

There are other knives which are actually liner locks, but instead of having you slide the liner aside, you push a button which pushes the liner lock aside, releasing the blade to close. The button on these has nothing to do with deploying the blade.

---

I am probably the obnoxious source of worry about axis locks making gravity knives. Any knife where releasing a mechanism allows the blade to fall free into an open, locked position is a gravity knife. Every axis folder I've owned or handled, I've been able to pull back the axis bar, turn or jerk my wrist, and watch the blade rotate out.

This is either a case of an idea the law hasn't caught up with yet, or Benchmade has explained itself convincingly to enough key jurisdictions that you aren't going to get hassled. Remember, they do a lot of business with the US military. Maybe they have good contacts. I hope so! The axis is an elegant lock.

But frankly, even autos and gravity knives don't bother me, folders with 8" blades don't bother me, and anyone who wants one should be able to buy and carry it. We have to work within the definition of today's laws, but in reality, they are all a fraud.

Punish people for what they do, not for what some politician picks up cheap votes for pretending we'll do if he doesn't impose yet another worthless regulation.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
There is no one "button lock". Several different mechanisms use a button to release the lock. But unless they are autos, they don't need to lock it closed.
I am probably the obnoxious source of worry about axis locks making gravity knives. Any knife where releasing a mechanism allows the blade to fall free into an open, locked position is a gravity knife. Every axis folder I've owned or handled, I've been able to pull back the axis bar, turn or jerk my wrist, and watch the blade rotate out.
Click to expand...

But if you have to flick the wrist or turn or move or w/e that is no longer a specifically gravity knife it is a centrfugal knife so it all depends on the wording of the laws in his area.
 
Great. Go ahead and "prove" me wrong. Your distinction between a gravity knife and a centrifugal knife is artificial.

In New York City, as in Canadian Customs, they will take your legitimate liner lock, and swing it again and again in a hard, wide arc. If it opens, you're toast.

Sure it depends on the wording of the laws in his area. That's the whole problem. Too many areas with laws that accomplish nothing, but harass ordinary citizens going about their ordinary business.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Great. Go ahead and "prove" me wrong. Your distinction between a gravity knife and a centrifugal knife is artificial.

In New York City, as in Canadian Customs, they will take your legitimate liner lock, and swing it again and again in a hard, wide arc. If it opens, you're toast.

Sure it depends on the wording of the laws in his area. That's the whole problem. Too many areas with laws that accomplish nothing, but harass ordinary citizens going about their ordinary business.
Click to expand...

I was not attempting to prove you wrong simply stating that depending on the wording of law a centrifugal knife(axis lock) would slip by a specifically worded law against gravity knives.

Added: by my reading of the laws regarding your area the argument between gravity and centrifugal is moot because both are illegal.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Great. Go ahead and "prove" me wrong. Your distinction between a gravity knife and a centrifugal knife is artificial.

In New York City, as in Canadian Customs, they will take your legitimate liner lock, and swing it again and again in a hard, wide arc. If it opens, you're toast.

Sure it depends on the wording of the laws in his area. That's the whole problem. Too many areas with laws that accomplish nothing, but harass ordinary citizens going about their ordinary business.
Click to expand...

bastards have that here.
which is why I dress for success and don't draw any attention so they have no reason to search me. Many good LEO's around, but give em a bad day or a bit of cheek (never have:rolleyes:) and they become buggers. but only because I don't need them at the time.

I have great respect for the LEO that protect and serve. Great people, demanding jobs. Good on you all
 
In my state the law does define a difference between "gravity" and "inertia" (which I assume is the same as centrifugal) and prohibit them both which, interestingly, could lead to the arrest of almost the entire state population of males and a large portion of females ... because almost any knife can be opened (one way or another) by the force of inertia. I have older slip joint PKs that can be opened by holding the blade and "snapping" the knife handle open. That is inertia ... and the laws need to be changed.

WOOK
 
they should be scrapped. I think that knife crime isn't affected by the laws regarding knives.

I believe that switch blades are illegal because they are seen to be used in "ambush" knife attacks.

My carson flippered M16, or BM Stryker, or any emerson I have can be used in an ambush if I wanted to.

Hell if knife crime was the idea I'd get a fixed blade and stash that IWB and hows that for quick deployment?

Those that want to do the crime will do it anyway, and I doubt they'd do it with 200-300 dollar knives.
JMHO
 
Of course those laws have an effect on knife crime. Without the laws, the knives wouldn't be a crime ;)

Seriously, crime is violating a law. A criminal by definition is someone who commits a crime, i.e. someone who does not obey the law. If they are not going to obey a law against stabbing people, why would they obey a law against having the knife to stab them with?
 
yablanowitz said:
Of course those laws have an effect on knife crime. Without the laws, the knives wouldn't be a crime ;)

Seriously, crime is violating a law. A criminal by definition is someone who commits a crime, i.e. someone who does not obey the law. If they are not going to obey a law against stabbing people, why would they obey a law against having the knife to stab them with?
Click to expand...
...and how come no one has offered me a free Sebenza?
 
I see alot of stabbings and cuttings on the job. 90% of the time they are done with kitchen knives over a domestic squable or territorial purposes. I almost never see folders that we seek out on this forum used for crimes. Some serve a purpose but alot of the knife laws are rediculous to me. It is the publics fear and misunderstanding of knives that hurt us all.
 
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