Question about Matriarch

one2gofst

one2gofst

Joined
Dec 3, 2001
Messages
1,536
I recently acquired a carried, but otherwise unused Matriarch in a trade. I really like the knife, but have a question. I noticed that there is no blade stop per-se. Rather the point of the blade rests against the inside of the FRN handle. I was wondering if there is any experience with the tip being worn down over time wit hopening and closing or if there are any cases of the tip breaking off upon closing the knife. Thanks for any help you can provide.
 
I just bought one for a buddy of mine. I inspected it very closely, prior to giving it to him, and I don't recall the tip hitting the FRN handle. I usually check for this sort of thing, especially in such radical blade shape scenerios. I'd swear it didn't hit, but I could be wrong.

The bottom of the blade tang should come into contact with the bottom the the mid-lock. It acts as a stop pin.
 
I just checked mine and, although it looks close, there is no contact. Try slipping a small piece of paper between the tip & the handle.
 
Well, I am able to slip a piece of paper in between. However, it looks too close and on the inside of the handle is a mark like the tip has hit there before. Is there a chance that under normal circumstances it does not touch, but if it closes quickly it does? Thanks for the advice and test guys.
 
I noticed that with mine too????

Is that "normal"????:confused:


It's a good knife though!!!:D And everybody at work is trying to "borrow it"!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:
 
Wouldn't let anyone borrow it if I were you, since the point is fairly delicate for utility use. I am not going to worry about the point. If it breaks I guess I will get to see how well Spyderco takes care of warranty issues as I am not going to use it to cut anything.
 
My fear is that one of my moronic co-worker would accidentally impale themselves!!!:eek: :barf:

I definately won't be a happy camper!!!:mad:
 
If you use a civilian or a matriarch for any purpose other than the intended, then the warranty is voided. Obviously the inteded use of these knives it to maim a human assailant. I would not be as worried about someone impaling themselves with either of these knives, they were very specifically designed to slice with the points and the s-shape.
 
Mschwoeb, I understand that. What I was saying is that I am not going to worry about the original concern of the debatable contact of the tip to the zytel handle, figuring that if that causes the tip to wear or break then it should be covered under warranty. Is this an incorrect assumption? It would seem to me that opening and closing the knife is essential for practicing with it and practicing is essential for effective preparedness and use.
 
Originally posted by one2gofst
It would seem to me that opening and closing the knife is essential for practicing with it and practicing is essential for effective preparedness and use.
Click to expand...

That's right!

I did the paper sliding test on my Matriarch and even if it looks like the tip would touch the handle it doesn't!
 
I just checked my recently purchased black Matriarch. It doesn't touch.

My reading of Ohio Revised Code indicates I can't carry it concealed in Ohio, because it would then be a "concealed deadly weapon."

Concealed "tool" knives are fine, but the tag which came with my Matriarch clearly states it's NOT for utility purposes.

Maybe I could carry it as a "collectors item?" :)

Heck, if I can't legally carry it, that's EXACTLY WHAT IT IS!!:D

Karl
 
Yes, I could carry it as a tool, and it would probably be good at clipping coupons, too. However, there is enough in the literature form Spyderco and elsewhere to indicate it was "manufactured" as a "weapon," which is one of the three elements meeting Ohio's "deadly weapon" statute (anything "manufactured, modified, or intended to be used as a weapon"). The act of concealment would then make it "an illegal deadly weapon." Carrying it openly would be acceptable, so a belt holder would probably do, at least without a jacket or coat on. Clipping it to the "outside" of my coat might work, except my coat is black, and "concealment" is often a tricky concept for sneaky hoplophobe/elitists in law enforcement (otherwise known as "knife collectors").

Also, I work at OSU, which has a "no weapons in the work environment" policy. At my "mini knife show" I had in a class yesterday, I therefore left my Matriarch and F-S Commando knife at home. Instead, I had everything from three serrated Enduras to a Busse Basic #7. All acceptable, as they were "tools." Or...at least I got away with it, and was comfortable doing so.

Lot's of grey areas, though. I carry my Sifu sometimes. I just won't carry the Matriarch (or the F-S). I think there is too much evidence out there that these were designed to be "weapons," and that furthermore, their very design inhibits their "tool" capabilities moreso than other knives (like the AFCK, for example). If "mushroom harvesting" was a national pasttime, and 90% of Americans engaged in it, then I wouldn't feel inhibited in carrying the Matriarch...:)

Am I totally correct in my reasoning here? Maybe, maybe not. The law is not always very clear, and just because you can get away with it on Monday and Tuesday doesn't mean you can do so on Wednesday.

I'm just playing it safe--except for the Sifu, which I think I could defend (and I could be wrong about that).

The fact that it is "illegal" to carry concealed deadly weapons, is, of course, immoral, illogical, and, I believe, against the Ohio Constitution. How much protection do you think THAT will give me? :)

The true criminals live and work in the heart of Ohio's government.

Karl
 
Karl,

The Matriarch is a great seatbelt cutter, therefore it is a safety/extraction tool. Worn openly in a neck sheath it wouldn't be a concealed weapon.
 
Should not be a concealed weapon in your pocket with the clip either, as a good portion of the end and the entire clip are visable.
 
It would seem like you would not be able to carry a gunting legally if you think that the Matriarch is illegal. Please tell me this is not the case.
 
One2gofst, the applicable section of the Ohio Revised Code is 2923.11:

"(A) 'Deadly weapon' means any instrument, device or thing capable of inflicting death, and DESIGNED or specially adapted for use as a weapon, or possessed, carried, or used as a weapon." (emphasis mine)

The ORC section on concealment is 2923.12:

"(A) No person shall knowingly carry or have, concealed on his or her person or concealed ready at hand, any deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance."

I used to worry a bit about my BM Ascent, seeing as how the blade design was essentially the same as the AFCK ("Advanced Folding 'CAMPING' :) Knife"). However, I got over that, since even the AFCK would mostly be used for utility purposes, and nothing about the blade shape seemed to indicate a "weapon only" design. Furthermore, it would take a really motivated, knife-design educated cop to recognize the Ascent's heritage, etc. "Tactical folders" may be "tactical," but they are primarily used as tools, not weapons.

I'm not so sure about the Matriarch though. The tag provided with it saying that utility use will invalidate the warranty, plus its exclusion from the Spyderco website (if I'm not mistaken, at least the picture is not there), plus it's derivation from the Civilian, PLUS all the info which could be gotten off Bladeforums and other places...

If someone really wanted to bust me with a Matriarch, I think they could do it, and I wouldn't be backed up by "all the evidence." As for "concealment," I don't think it is ever defined in the ORC. There may be trouble with that, depending on the LEO who wants to be a little criminal-loving Taft clone. Maybe I should try to look up case law on that?

If you can get a statement from the Ohio Attorney General's office that it's okay to carry a pocketclipped Matriarch, I would be thrilled to carry it when I wished. However, my experiences with asking questions of "my betters" here in Ohio is not good. Often, no one has gotten back to me or I was given the royal runaround. No one wants to put their a** on the line for a citizen question regarding self-defense, I suppose. You never know who I will go out and kill. :rolleyes:

I am pretty comfy carrying my Sifu unless I am going somewhere "iffy," like the statehouse. The Sifu is a BF special edition, and is marked so. It is a "collectable" and I like to show it around to people (no, not strangers in elevators :) ). The blade is large and black ti coated, but I think I could defend it. Not so the Matriarch. Until I see case law accepting the Gunting as a "less than lethal weapon" I would say the same for it, unfortunately.

Keep in mind at some point in the future I will completely ignore Ohio's unconstitutional, immoral, illegal, and unjust, discriminatory, criminal aiding and abetting laws against the good guys going armed with a concealed weapon. And when I do, it will be with a handgun, not a knife.

This is just my layman's take on the ORC and the crap we have to deal with here in Tyrant Taft's criminally oriented la la land.

Mike, I've thought about seatbelt cutting, and I will someday (yeah, yeah, "someday" :) ) mount my CRKT safety tip Bear Claw in my K-car just for that purpose. Maybe two of them...

Karl
 
FYI, I just went to the Prac/Tac forum, and there is a thread on "Bram Frank's Gunting." According to Bram, there are a lot of LE agencies training in the Gunting, and there are plenty of field "experiences" with it in the less-than-lethal control mode.

Shouldn't be too long before some sort of track record/case law is generated by all the exposure.

If the Gunting is widely accepted as an LE control device, maybe it would be accepted as a less-than-lethal knife "weapon," at least in the closed position. Or, maybe it will be accepted as an LE only device, much like ASP batons are in many places. :mad:

Varying state by state, locale by locale, corrupt politician by corrupt politician...

Karl
 
A knife clipped to your pocket is generally considered overt carry. If you want case law look it up in knifelaws of the 50 states.

As for the Sifu, I would hesitate to carry that bad boy into a place like the statehouse. Most govt. buildings have a fairly short length limit.
 
Karl,

My carry Matriarch is one of the grey ones done for the forums, is one of 500, therefore a collector peice.
 
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