question about personal attacks

H

Hoodoo

Joined
Aug 18, 1999
Messages
2,355
When I originally started posting here, I thought that personal atacks were not allowed. However, when I look at the FAQ, it isn't necessarily stated that way.

"Insults, lies, accusations, etc. that are designed to hurt or otherwise damage another's feelings or reputation, and have no
basis in fact. If the comments are based on facts and the truth, then they are not flames. Moderators and the Administrator have
the final word on what constitutes flaming."

I'm a little confused by this because I'm not sure how a lie is based on fact but that's another issue. Anyway, it seems to me that personal attacks are becoming the norm around here and those that whine about it (i.e., me) are asked to butt out. And as long as we feel we are right and have the evidence to back it up, we can pretty well say what we like.

Here are some interesting comments in a recent thread (threads, actually) and I am now wondering if the "personal attack" rule has now been removed because the following statements appear to be personal attacks. If not, I'm assuming that we are all free to say such things whereever and whenever we want. I would appreciate a clarification on this issue.

thanks,

Hoodoo

There are quite a few more where these came from and others have been deleted:

I wish all makers were as great and dedicated as you. I bow down humbly oh great satin finish master. I bend over and grab my ankles for you.

Is there a class for developing an ego as big as Lynns?

But I'm sure Lynn would never shake with it, it would soil his precious hands to touch people as unworthy as you and I.

Lynn you need to deflate the ego, stop lying about wait time, and set realistic prices. You, my friend, are pathetic.

I know Lynn has probably given himself many handjobs, but 8 hours?

I find it hard to believe Lynn stays busy with his 15 groupies that buy from him. What the hell did you put in their water to brain wash them so well? Wake up and smell the bull @#%$ boys, the knives suck. Get over it.

I can only assume that having your toadies around you gives you courage to continue our debate.

A word of advice: one day Tim may stop suddenly, and you'll discover that not only your nose is brown.

You mouth Tim, saying he has groupies, but you are the one with your lips fixed firmly on Lynn's butt. I hope you washed your hands before typing your reply.

Anyways, I need to go take a Lynn and wipe my ptpalhpa when I finish.

I don't need to hide behind a troll account to tell people Griffith is a blowhard who rips people off.

when i see a lying dishonest egotistical little jerk preying upon uneducated new buyers and collectors it just really irks me bad!

if you and your little cult keep your sidesow forum to yourselves fine, but trying to spread your lying crap all over the knife business sucks!

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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
Hoodoo,

I agree. It isn't anywhere near as nice as when I started lurking back in June of '99. I think the explosion of members, the opening of Turber's knife shop, and of course, the passing of James, has made it harder to control what is being let on the boards. Ultimately, it is up to us to police this place. Look at the Good, Bad, & Ugly forum. The members usually do an excellent job of keeping people in check there. (The current Lynn Griffith bashing not with-standing.) It is impossible for any one person to keep an eye on this place. I think that they should make a couple of roving moderators that can keep an overall eye on the place. They would have jurisdiction in any of the forums. Like I said earlier though, it's mostly up to us. A quick e-mail to bring it to a moderators attention usually does the trick. Good topic.

Jim McCullough
 
Unfortunately, as we grow larger and larger it has become harder to consistently moderate the forums and stop behavior before it crosses the line.

The above certainly was uncalled for - regardless of who posted it or why (and I'm sure we all know who those words belonged to).

I don't want to give the impression that this sort of thing is approved or tolerated - but at the same time, BladeForums.com is growing roughly 3 times as fast as our nearest competitor and like it or not, moderating the forums would be a full time job for several people.

I'll agree with the statement that the membership needs to be largely self moderating - and it usually is.

Again, whenever there is a problem, please do not hesitate to bring it to the attention of that forum's moderator. If the problem is with a moderator, bring it to my or Mike's attention and we'll jump on it ASAP.

Spark

------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Hoodoo

I whole-heartedly agree with you both here and in your post in the above mentioned thread running in GB&U. The insults and personal attacks accomplish nothing except to damage the credibility of those who post them. One forumite even went so far as to physically threaten another. However, while I don't agree with these members' methods, I feel that it would be most effective if other forumites and moderators simply led by example.

Unfortunately, some moderators these days seem to do a pretty poor job of it.

To all - unless you conduct yourself in a tactful and respectful manner, you will not be taken seriously. I cannot judge from your posts whether you are honest or not, but I can get an indication of your level of intelligence and maturity. As such, if you have a point to make, it will benefit you to be articulate and eloquent. Use facts to support your opinions, be specific, and conduct yourselves with integrity. If, instead, your behavior more resembles that of a playground bully, my better judgment will preclude me from lending any credence to your words.

Now I ask you, is that how you wish to be received when you express an opinion about something you feel strongly about?
 
For better or worst the bulletin board format encourages rants, and the more members we have the louder the ranting will become.

I am not sure what we have here. Clearly, its in part a business operated by and for the benefit of its sponsors. On another level it is very much a club, most of the content of this site has been freely contributed by its generous membership. If it is a club then we will soon need to inject a little direction. Nothing major, just some sort of purpose to entertain the troops.

Perhaps we can start publishing reports, or organizing quarterly events. Clearly we have plenty of energy here and it will be up to us to either harness it or let it detonate of its own accord.

Maybe someday we will be able to put together a ranking of the top 100 makers. Rants like the example above would have a legitimate avenue for redress, and would be reflected in ranking rather than as loud if perhaps inconsequential personal attacks.

There are legitimate issues that irritate people from time to time, we can either choose to channel that into something productive or deal with it as background noise.

BTW. I agree with all of the above. But, there are probably some institutional issues that are encouraging negative behavior.

[This message has been edited by not2sharp (edited 11-01-2000).]
 
A lot, in fact over half, of those quotes in Hoodoo's post belong to me. I have sense came back and replied that my posts were rude and probably unwarrented. I don't regret or appologise for what was said, but I will appologise for how I said it. Hoodoo, while I agree with you, you were also the one with the big list of insults you posted. Now they were funny, but don't add fuel to the fire with that then come here and gripe. I do feel a lot of my insults were wrong, but it's in the past. They have already been read. I do regret that my Christian ethics and values were compromised by me in my posts. I do believe the basis of my posts ARE based in fact, but the way they were worded was wrong. I will do my part to help police MYSELF. I feel that is all any of us can do.
 
Unfortunately, when it`s the Moderators doing the bashing, it declares open season for everyone else. I wish the moderators would take the high road once in a while.....
 
As long as these forums are pretty much open to anyone who comes along, the best answer to trolling is no answer at all. Don't respond, just leave. Let them scream, with no one to listen.
 
Jeremy,
I did indeed publish a whole list of insults, but I posted those as a joke with the intent to attempt to defuse the situation before it got out of hand. I apologize if this was a poor attempt at humor. I did not direct those insults at any specific forum member. And as I look at the subsequent posts, I can't see how that post influenced the diatribe one way or the other.

As for there being many posts listed above as belonging to you, I can assure you I did not do that intentionally. I simply went down the thread post by post and picked the statements I thought were personal attacks. I didn't get them all because I got tired of it. So if this seems biased toward you or directed toward you, it was not my attention. Nor do I particularly want to single out this thread. These kinds of attacks are sprouting up in other places as well. There was one in the Busse Forum not so long ago.

I'm not saying the issues raised by people in these heated debates are not valid. I just think they can be discussed in a different way.


------------------
Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
As we are all opinionated, it can be difficult to suppress it. As a moderator, I have had occasions where I have been somewhat demeaning to individuals. I try my best to stay on the high road. Dunno if I succeed worth a damn, but I'm trying and will continue to try. The forum I moderate does not have a heavy amount of traffic as this and other forums have, but there are still occasions where there's some tension.

I can appreciate how hard some of the moderators try to hold back a lot of opinion, spite, and all of that jazz. It can be very easy and very tempting to jump at each others' throats.

Shinryû.
 
Sticks and stones.....
Grow up, if you don't like a post or thread don't read it. That will stop it more than any thing else. Kind of hard to argue with yourself. I really never did understand why someone would post in a thread they didn't like and then keep reading it afterthey have bitched about it.
Btw
UP YOURS
smile.gif
 

Simply try to keep in mind that we all should try to keep things in perspective. Much of what people get angry over is not really such a cause for concern when looked at from outside .

 
caesum, I couldn`t agree with you more. It`s only knifemaking. There are nobler persuits out there more worthy of our energies. But, hey, what are you gonna do....?
 
This is a very interesting thread.
I suspect there are lots of us who read the threads you are referring to, Hoodoo, but we simply choose not to become involved. I've probably spent way too much time reading threads like that....but I rarely allow myself to become emotionally involved, or even post for that matter. Sometimes it's entertaining, but it appeals to a drearier side of my nature that I would as soon not admit to. Always, it is revealing of the breadth and depth of human nature to read some of these contentious and bitter posts.
Our community boasts the myriad personalities and what is sad, in some posts, is that the lowest common demoninator is all too common. What I found myself doing as I read the recent Tim H. & Lynn G. thread, was imagine what kind of light James Mattis might have brought to the conversation. I really do miss him.

...mostly a lurker
ptn

[This message has been edited by ptn (edited 11-01-2000).]
 
Steve B,
It takes alot to insult me, but your comment "It's only knifemaking" insults the hell out of me.
Are you sure you're on the right forums?
 
Is it just me or it seems that the board has gotten a little cinched up lately?

I mean, when I started we just had a little fun at eachother's expense, and just did a little ribbing at each other. Then we get a few people who take it too seriously and start flaming eachother. Others come back, and get flamed to the point that they leave again (Misko). Just calm down everybody, and just laugh once in a while DAMMIT
biggrin.gif
 
I can see both sides here but come on, can't we all just get along? This is supposed to be for sharing information and knowledge and helping each other. Dave
 
Dave,
As a professional knifemaker, what I saw was Tim sharing information and knowledge, and trying to help another maker. IMHO a personal attack is when you call their family members bad names.
 
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