Question about plastic (or synthetics)

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will62

Joined
Oct 18, 2002
Messages
372
Why is there great deal of love for certain plastics like Delrin and Valox but not for materials like G10 or Zytel? It seems to me that yellow handled knives are great but the same model in Zytel is sort of looked down on as being inferior. I recently saw a post regarding the Case Caliber line and got the impression that this line was not real Case.

Personally I think that is nothing wrong with a traditional pattern with a modern handle material but I could be in the minority. I understand the nostalgia factor with bone, stag and celluloid. I guess it all comes down to personal preference.
 
I don't mind G-10 or Zytel in my knives, but I do prefer a nice bone or traditional synthetic in the traditionals in my collection. The new Case caliber line looks a bit too mass produced and unfinished for my liking. With the G-10 in Case's line and the yella, there is the more refined look of a nicely polished scale with a bolster and shield, but with the Calibers it looks sort of underrefined. The Calibers also don't have liners while the other synthetics do.
All in all, the Case caliber line is not my favorite, but they are still great users.
 
I like them all but I prefer the manmade materials because they are very tough and they can look nice too. The AG Russell Cowboy and Ranchers look great in the Black Rucarta. I can't wait for the Red Rucarta.
 
I'm not entirely sure there isn't a lot of love for G10 in particular, even on traditional knives. Case uses it occasionally in some lines, and it looks great on traditionals, especially when polished. Given a choice, I wouldn't mind it at all. It is more expensive and much more challenging for manufacturers to shape it, though, so cost is a consideration.

In traditional knives, there's appropriately a lot of history (and tradition) in the simpler synthetics like Delrin, and it's 'composition' predecessors. For that alone, it's a natural fit for 'traditional' fans. Delrin is also very easy for manufacturers to shape, also for the end-user. One thing I've always liked about it, it's very easy to sand & buff out scratches & scuffs in Delrin. And the more modern incarnations of Delrin are extremely durable too, in terms of resistance to chemicals, cracking and chipping.

I've always been somewhat on the fence about whether zytel is a good fit for traditional knives, aesthetically. Functionally, it's great stuff; shock-resistant in the extreme, and also extremely rigid, so it holds it's shape very well and can even eliminate the need for metal liners in a knife. Makes for some feather-light designs.
 
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Zytel is fabulous stuff. In addition to being extremely tough, light and resistant to practically everything, it has a natural lubricity and needs very little or no lube, making it ideal for folders. Love my Voyagers.
 
There are some traditional knives that seem most "right" with synthetic scales. Boy Scout knives. Sod busters. The original Schrade Old Timer and Uncle Henry knifes. Buck stockmen (in black).

I become very much unclear where the lines are though.

The Buck 112 is clearly as traditional as can be. 10 pounds of comforting brass and wood. Yum. Easy to forget that the first versions had Micarta scales.

The Buck Ecolite 112 is made out of modern Paperstone, sort of an eco-friendly variant of Micarta. Insanely light. Insanely tough. The Ecolite 112 reminds of a Buck 112 crossed with a Sodbuster - 2 traditionals. Is the Ecolite 112 a traditional? I think so (but I don't much care as it's not leaving my pocket anytime soon.)

What about the Bucklite Max line of knives? Lines of the handles are related to Buck's traditionals but no... I think of htem as modern knives.

Course, "traditional" is contextual. Ever heard a song from your high school days on the radio only to find out it's the "oldies" station. You just wait. The Traditional forum will have a thread about traditional Kershaw Leeks at some point. Just a matter of time.
 
The Buck 486 in my pocket has Zytel handles and no liners. It makes for a slim light weight 110 bladed knife.
 
Edbeau,

I agree. The 486 is my backpacking knife of choice for this reason. And the handle material is great, especially in wet environments.

But you have to admit, it's nasty looking. Poor knife looks like it got hit by a dump truck loaded up with ugly.
 
I think the case line up in G10 look great. Polished G10 and bolsters look good together to me. I picked up this mini trapper awhile ago I love it.

010-24.jpg
 
will62 said:
Why is there great deal of love for certain plastics like Delrin and Valox but not for materials like G10 or Zytel? It seems to me that yellow handled knives are great but the same model in Zytel is sort of looked down on as being inferior. I recently saw a post regarding the Case Caliber line and got the impression that this line was not real Case.

Personally I think that is nothing wrong with a traditional pattern with a modern handle material but I could be in the minority. I understand the nostalgia factor with bone, stag and celluloid. I guess it all comes down to personal preference.
Click to expand...

I can't find much there to disagree with.

While I love nice jigged bone, and go nuts over some nice stag with lots of bark, I also don't mind synthetic, no matter what the synthetic is. Once the line is crossed into the land of petro chemicals, I don't care what the material is, as long is it's highly functional and rugged. That's the role of the synthetic as I see it; a cost cutting measure to give a handle that is light weight, strong, and durable. As long as those goals are met, I don't care if they use delrin, valor, zytel, G10, or other miracle material. If I want pocket jewelry, then I'll have pocket jewelry. But it I want a beater knife to go where my precious won't be carried, then plastic is okay with me. And to my generation it's all plastic. In fact, no matter what it is, or how high tech it is, when we see a new knife with some synthetic handles, we'll usually comment on the " new plastic stuff" the handle is made out of. We don't mean it in a mean way, but just an observation from the old fart standpoint. We know it ain't bad stuff, and we know all about Glocks and M4's and that they are pretty good at being durable.

I carried a Buck stockman with plastic handles for 25 years, and it was good. I rode my motorcycle to the Oregon coast and back with a Case yellow sodbuster in my pocket, and it handled everything just fine. For many years in my younger day my go-to knife was a Randall number 15 with a micarta handle. It did well, even if it was massive overkill. I've watched my better half torture a SAK with 'plastic' scales, and there was no problem. It's all good, as long as the knife they are attached to is a good one. I'm going be trying out a new Case caliber peanut just for yuks. It may be nice to have a beater 'nut. It will be lighter weight, simpler construction, and cheaper to replace if the worst happens.

Carl.
 
I have some of the Case Caliber knives and I like them. I think some of the problem is execution. The handles aren't finished like a traditional. If the peanut was in black zytel with the handle jigged with bolsters, it wouldn't look much different than the old "Gum Fuddy" Case knives. It would look pretty much like the black delrin peanut I carried today.
But since it's this weird tan/green color, and the finish on the handle is....um...stippled? I'm not sure the right word for it. It just doesn't look traditional.
Is it functional? Heck yeah. Does they look styled like any of my other traditionals? No. I'm guessing the omission of bolsters, liners and so on, are what lets them sell it at a lower price point. While that doesn't bother me, the aesthetics just aren't as pleasing. That's important to a lot of people. Even though they're cheaper than most other Case knives, for around a 10 spot more, you can have a more traditional looking knife. I'll be honest, if I could only have one peanut, it wouldn't be a tan caliber.
I'm glad they make them. But I'm glad I can get my hands on many other variations if I wanted to.
 
The difference seems to be between plastics that are cut and ground to their final shape, usually from sheets or bars, such as Derlin, G-10, micarta, etc. and plastics that pop out of a mold pretty much their final shape, like Zytel and the various related thermoforming plastics.

Traditionals are usually fitted by hand such that all the parts come together to fit precisely. This method of finishing isn't very conducive to injection molded plastics. The genius of injection molded plastics is that when properly designed, the need for hand fitting is eliminated. This is generally a good thing. However, it isn't what knife nuts would usually call "traditional".
 
I do recall now that Strider knives stated how hard G10 is to work. REALLY hard!
Do we have a pic of the Buck 486? :)
 
Top one is a Buck 486 (blade same size as a Buck 110). Bottom is a 482 (blade same size as a Buck 112).

100-3648.JPG
 
Nothing at all wrong with a modern material on a traditionally patterned knife IMO. Whether it be blade steel or handle material I don't mind, just as long as it does its job at the end of the day. Still my all time favorite handle material is Case's "rough black" or gum fuddy.
 
Personally, I have no bias towards G10 or Zytel or anything else. I have learned that plastic/synthetic handles have a place in history of American traditionals, and I have nothing against it (for example, I do love my yellow Buck 303). The same materials would look totally out of place in most European traditionals (except for SAK's), but that's a whole different story.
I think the main point is not if the handles are delrin, G10, zytel or acrylics. What matters (at least to me) is how they look and how they feel...and I assume this has more to do with the way the material is processed and finished, more than with the material itself.
For example, Case G10 handles do look nice to me. After all, it's a matter of personal taste (spoke the man who prefers wood and ivory and smooth bone over stag and jigged bone... :rolleyes:)

Fausto
:cool:
 
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