Question about scandi grinds

7

72jroberts

Joined
Mar 16, 2012
Messages
277
Regarding scandi grinds, is there anything that a scandi grind can do better than an FFG?

Or, what do you like to do with scandi grinds that seem to work better than other grinds?

Im a big Mora fan, I have the 860, 840, robust, 2000. I also just bought the bushlore about 6 weeks ago and love it to death, of course that's a Condor. (And I can tell you, it wont be the last Condor I buy-what a great knife and company). In fact, I bought a mini bushlore for my son's birthday this week, he will be 6 yrs old. Can't wait to have some Father-son whittling time together soon with his very own knife.

Thanks,
John
 
72jroberts said:
Regarding scandi grinds, is there anything that a scandi grind can do better than an FFG?

Or, what do you like to do with scandi grinds that seem to work better than other grinds?
Click to expand...

In terms of performance, nothing. They are less tedious to grind and don't require nearly as much metal removal.
 
To the best of my knowledge, scandi grinds are designed to resist chipping and breakage at the blade's edge. This is a desirable characteristic in an isolated setting that is far from repair facilities, like the bush. Your tool can't break here. Also, due to this chip resistance characteristic this grind is suitable for chopping, which is hard on blades. Ever read internet commentary about Wusthof kitchen knives? Occasionally you'll see complaints about blade chipping. Convex grinds are the sharpest of grinds, but the most brittle. Great in a sterile kitchen, not so good for field use.
 
Last edited:
alfred mcdougal said:
To the best of my knowledge, scandi grinds are designed to resist chipping and breakage at the blade's edge. This is a desirable characteristic in an isolated setting that is far from repair facilities, like the bush. Your tool can't break here. Also, due to this chip resistance characteristic this grind is suitable for chopping, which is hard on blades. Ever read internet commentary about Wusthof kitchen knives? Occasionally you'll see complaints about blade chipping. Convex grinds are the sharpest of grinds, but the most brittle. Great in a sterile kitchen, not so good for field use.
Click to expand...

Are you saying a scandi is more suitable for chopping than a ffg? Not really. And "convex is sharpest" is not a general statement one can make.
 
Last edited:
This is a good question. Obviously the advantage for manufacturers is that there is much less metal to grind.


For use, I can think of two advantages. One is that the edge angle will be very acute compared to most factory grinds (this is necessary to give the scandi any decent performance at all). This will give it a better initial bite into wood. However a FFG could easily be made with a similar edge angle, so this is not an inherent advantage to the scandi grind, just one that normally exists.


The other one is that the very wide bevels are more controllable when making planing/paring cuts. This is basically the same reason why people consider the scandi grind "easy" (if labor intensive) to sharpen. Woodworking tools meant to create flat surfaces (like a paring chisel) have very broad flat surfaces. The scandi is much closer to that than a FFG. This was one of my original reasons for buying scandi knives. However as I've acquired more knives that are FFG and convex I'm not sure the difference is very significant.

One of the tasks it ought to make a difference on is feathering sticks, and I mean creating the smallest possible feathers such that they can be lit by a ferro rod. I know I have been able to do this relatively easy with all grind types as long as the edge angle was less than about 30 degrees. The real challenge is to create very long feathers, and I should do some kind of test to see if the scandis perform any better. Anyways, even if there is a quantifiable difference, it's not dramatic. Perhaps if you want to use the knife for rustic woodworking/joinery the difference would be noticeable.


Of course, the main disadvantage to the Scandi is that you will get less penetration into the wood (perpendicular to grain) for a given force applied than with a similar FFG or convex. This is apparent when cutting notches. And at the same time it will have a more fragile edge, because it must use an edge angle of around 20 degrees or less (if you had a 30 degree edge it would barely cut at all, I think). And when you damage the edge it takes a very long time to correct. So you have to be more careful with them around knots and on harder seasoned wood. The upside to this is that if you wanted to teach your son sharpening, he'll get all he can handle with the scandi, and they are great for developing technique.

I still use my Scandis and they remain some of my favorite knives. The only time I really notice the drawbacks are when cutting a notch or when I have to sharpen out damage. Generally they work very well for whittling.
 
alfred mcdougal said:
Convex grinds are the sharpest of grinds, but the most brittle.

Great in a sterile kitchen, not so good for field use.
Click to expand...



Where do people come up with this stuff?



Metallurgy and Blade Geometry are just as important as grind style.

A brittle blade is a factor of HT, not grind style.

The truth is, convex bevels, because of their complex curvature, offer the maker the most flexibility when it come to adjusting the terminal geometry.


Of course all grind styles can be adjusted across the board from thin (acute) to thick (obtuse), in many ways leaving the choice of ultra sharp fragile or thicker stronger edge in the hands of the knifemaker.





Big Mike
 
Last edited:
alfred mcdougal said:
To the best of my knowledge, scandi grinds are designed to resist chipping and breakage at the blade's edge. This is a desirable characteristic in an isolated setting that is far from repair facilities, like the bush. Your tool can't break here. Also, due to this chip resistance characteristic this grind is suitable for chopping, which is hard on blades. Ever read internet commentary about Wusthof kitchen knives? Occasionally you'll see complaints about blade chipping. Convex grinds are the sharpest of grinds, but the most brittle. Great in a sterile kitchen, not so good for field use.
Click to expand...

You have it completely backwards.
 
Just a general observation, but it seems the Scandi grind gives a very acute edge with strong back bevel using a minimum amount of steel to produce the entire thing. Good bushcraft edge, very strong for its weight. Real advantage is maintenance - edge geometry never changes.
 
HeavyHanded said:
Just a general observation, but it seems the Scandi grind gives a very acute edge with strong back bevel using a minimum amount of steel to produce the entire thing. Good bushcraft edge, very strong for its weight. Real advantage is maintenance - edge geometry never changes.
Click to expand...

...but maintaining that edge bevel is the hard part for many. Especially out in the bush when you don't have a sheet of glass 5 grits of sandpaper or a mousepad handy!
 
CWL said:
...but maintaining that edge bevel is the hard part for many. Especially out in the bush when you don't have a sheet of glass 5 grits of sandpaper or a mousepad handy!
Click to expand...

Aww heck! On the trail or at home, you can maintain a scandi or any other knife with a 4" combination stone and a chunk of compound the size of a thimble. People (including me sometimes) get too caught up in how they think certain things need to be done. I can barely lift the bin I keep all my sharpening gear in - it collects dust most of the time (including my old steel plate, roll of sandpaper 120 grit through 2000, mousepad and diamond compound).
 
HeavyHanded said:
Just a general observation, but it seems the Scandi grind gives a very acute edge with strong back bevel using a minimum amount of steel to produce the entire thing. Good bushcraft edge, very strong for its weight. Real advantage is maintenance - edge geometry never changes.
Click to expand...

The edge is normally around 25 degrees inclusive.

On most other styles of grinds you normally have around 40 degrees inclusive or thicker.

Overall the knife will be tough but the edge will roll if pushed hard easier than other styles.
 
Last edited:
I'm a Scandi user & collector.

All my "users" get touched-up all the time freehand and on a hanging strop and I like to keep mine hair-popping sharp. They get slightly convexed over time until I eventually have a maintenance day when I break out the flat guide and the emory papers to put the flat bevels back on them.

If I don't do that, they would eventually become fully convexed, which still wouldn't be any problem for me.
 
Also I do not agree with the "minimum amount of steel" comment. For a given stock thickness and profile, a scandi would have considerably more steel in the blade than a FFG. It would be more correct to say "a minumum amount of grinding to produce the whole thing".
 
72jroberts said:
Regarding scandi grinds, is there anything that a scandi grind can do better than an FFG?

Or, what do you like to do with scandi grinds that seem to work better than other grinds?

Im a big Mora fan, I have the 860, 840, robust, 2000. I also just bought the bushlore about 6 weeks ago and love it to death, of course that's a Condor. (And I can tell you, it wont be the last Condor I buy-what a great knife and company). In fact, I bought a mini bushlore for my son's birthday this week, he will be 6 yrs old. Can't wait to have some Father-son whittling time together soon with his very own knife.

Thanks,
John
Click to expand...

The Mora's are great knives. But anything that costs more really shouldn't be a Scandi.
 
Robs92XJ said:
Also I do not agree with the "minimum amount of steel" comment. For a given stock thickness and profile, a scandi would have considerably more steel in the blade than a FFG. It would be more correct to say "a minumum amount of grinding to produce the whole thing".
Click to expand...

I fully admit there are FFGs that are very light weight, but compare nearly any of them sporting a blade width similar to a humble Mora classic in a torture test. The FFG needs to have a wider blade to equal the strength of a less broad Scandi. Factor in the reduced steel needed for a rat tail style tang. Respectfully, if you took the average Scandi and pounded it into a FFG you'd have a paring knife.
 
alfred mcdougal said:
To the best of my knowledge, scandi grinds are designed to resist chipping and breakage at the blade's edge. This is a desirable characteristic in an isolated setting that is far from repair facilities, like the bush. Your tool can't break here. Also, due to this chip resistance characteristic this grind is suitable for chopping, which is hard on blades. Ever read internet commentary about Wusthof kitchen knives? Occasionally you'll see complaints about blade chipping. Convex grinds are the sharpest of grinds, but the most brittle. Great in a sterile kitchen, not so good for field use.
Click to expand...

Wusthofs are overpriced kitchen furniture made out of obsolete steel.

And I think you have confused convex grinds - widely used on axes, heavy survival knives like Busses, meat cleavers, and Western and Japanese armour piercing swords - with concave aka hollow grinds.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top