Question about Stropping Compounds

[stitchawl]

I've tried cleaning (lighter fluid) on both horse hide strops I have (one HA one unknown) with no change.

Lighter fluid would certainly clean them up enough to eliminate any contamination. So what's 3-6 micron in size? We know that natural silicates don't get any larger than about .1 with the average between .05 - .005 mics. What can be that large that you find in leather?

It's not as if there are Jumbo silicates. Nature doesn't work that way.


Stitchawl

 

[Jason B.]

I don't think there is really a cap on size, like natural stones I'm sure it can be found in a range of "grits". The average I see is probably around 1 micron and from the speed shown and how it will polish I'd guess that to be pretty accurate.

My reasoning is... Its natural and not controlled. Its going to work because the methods have been proven through generations but that's no guarantee it will produce the visual effect of a closely graded compound.

It gives me the little boost I was looking for after the stones without extensive polishing steps. May not be as purtty but its stupid sharp

 

[stitchawl]

I don't think there is really a cap on size, like natural stones I'm sure it can be found in a range of "grits".

It can be found in a range of sizes. The scientists say they don't get any larger than about .1 with the average between .05 - .005 mics. That is, for its relative size, quite a large range. But it's still 10X smaller than 1 micron.

If you are seeing scratches between 3-6 micron, I don't believe they are being made by natural silicates. There has to be something else there. Think about it... a 3-6 micron edge for a shaving razor just is NOT something people will want to shave with twice!

but its stupid sharp

Well, we certainly agree on that! :thumbup:


Stitchawl

 

[Ben Dover]

Stitchawl,

I am completely at a loss to explain why the .25 diamond and .125 CBN spray work so well for me on top quality HA horsehide.

Of course, you are absolutely correct about the silicate size. My method does, however, work exceptionally well in the manner that I use it, and allows me the capability of refining edges to the point of true "braggin'rights."

Perhaps, I will just consider this one of life's little inexplicable mysteries!

 

[stitchawl]

Stitchawl,

I am completely at a loss to explain why the .25 diamond and .125 CBN spray work so well for me on top quality HA horsehide.

No mystery about this. .25 diamond or any other ultra-fine compound will make a fantastic edge. Putting it on horsehide doesn't lessen its effects in any way. My comment was that you don't get the effects of the ultra-ultra-ULTRA-fine natural silicates found in the hide itself when you cover it up with a larger grit size. With the higher price of horsehide, why not put your ultra-fine compounds on cowhide or MDF board, and THEN take advantage of the super teeny natural silicates that you already have available to you in the horsehide.

Of course, you are absolutely correct about the silicate size. My method does, however, work exceptionally well in the manner that I use it, and allows me the capability of refining edges to the point of true "braggin'rights."

Imagine your braggin' rights multiplied by a factor of 5X. Going from a .125 micron down to finishing on .05 micron has gotta show a difference. That's like the difference between a 400 grit stone and a 1000 grit one. Bare high quality horsehide is the final frontier!


Stitchawl

 

[Ben Dover]

I shall experiment with that method.

You realize, of course, that I'll be up half the night reworking my monthly budget to to purchase more horsehide!:grumpy::grumpy:

And it's all your fault!

I was blissful in my ignorance!

 

[stitchawl]

I shall experiment with that method.

You realize, of course, that I'll be up half the night reworking my monthly budget to to purchase more horsehide!:grumpy::grumpy:
And it's all your fault!
I was blissful in my ignorance!

I'm sorry. Perhaps this will help...

Do NOT purchase more horsehide. If you already have a good HA horsehide strop, why not just clean it up? Put the diamond stuff on cowhide (if you like the feel of leather,) or on a piece of MDF.

Give the horsie a bath, first with waterless hand cleaner (done two or three times to be sure to get out all the residue,) and a quick wipe with some lighter fluid to REALLY get out all the residue, then a light rub with some leather conditioner such as Lexol. If you don't have any of that, any good quality shoe cream (NOT WAX SHOE POLISH!!!!) stuff that will be absorbed into the leather to rehydrate it will make it as good as new. If you plan to skip the shoe cream, skip the lighter fluid and give an extra cleaning with the waterless hand cleaner. Just be sure that there is no pumice in the hand cleaner or it will scratch the leather. That won't ruin its effect, only its looks.



Stitchawl

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I'm sorry. Perhaps this will help...

Do NOT purchase more horsehide. If you already have a good HA horsehide strop, why not just clean it up? Put the diamond stuff on cowhide (if you like the feel of leather,) or on a piece of MDF.

Give the horsie a bath, first with waterless hand cleaner (done two or three times to be sure to get out all the residue,) and a quick wipe with some lighter fluid to REALLY get out all the residue, then a light rub with some leather conditioner such as Lexol. If you don't have any of that, any good quality shoe cream (NOT WAX SHOE POLISH!!!!) stuff that will be absorbed into the leather to rehydrate it will make it as good as new. If you plan to skip the shoe cream, skip the lighter fluid and give an extra cleaning with the waterless hand cleaner. Just be sure that there is no pumice in the hand cleaner or it will scratch the leather. That won't ruin its effect, only its looks.



Stitchawl

Hey Stitch.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I always learn something new & interesting in your posts about the leather. Always gives me something new to think about, and new things to try.

Very good. :thumbup:

 

[Ben Dover]

I agree with obsessed!

In the interest of full disclosure, I suppose that I really should admit that I was seeking a good reason (excuse?) to purchase two more pieces of horsehide from Mr. deGrau anyway!

 

[stitchawl]

Man has been using leather to sharpen edge for a long, long time. The concept isn't new. While there are new developments in compounds, none of them are the 'final step' in the process, only steps along the way. Since man began scraping his face, horsehide has been the last thing to touch the edge when man wanted a comfortable shave. Hundreds of years X hundreds of thousands of men = reliable methodology. I'm not touting anything new.

Hey Stitch.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I always learn something new & interesting in your posts about the leather. Always gives me something new to think about, and new things to try.
Very good. :thumbup:

Learning, thinking, and trying for yourself always beats blind obedience. I'm just 'reporting,' certainly not 'proselytizing.' We get enough of that already.

I agree with obsessed!
In the interest of full disclosure, I suppose that I really should admit that I was seeking a good reason (excuse?) to purchase two more pieces of horsehide from Mr. deGrau anyway!

I always preferred "want" over "need." That's why God invented "fun." It's also why God invented FTD Florists, so we can placate our other half and get away with spending the rent money on toys!
Keith told me that his horsehide comes from 'Horween Leather,' and as far as I can tell, there is just no finer horsehide available. That certainly makes it a worthwhile investment.


Stitchawl

 

[plainjoe]

Thankyou to all. You have some very interesting and usefull info. Sorry it took so long to reply. Later on the day I asked this question the wife up and wanted to go to Great Falls. Found a saddle shop and the employee said they use scrap chap leather;rough side up. He helped me pick out a couple of pieces,($10.00). They use Dico emery and white rouge from Ace Hardware. He was very patient and helpfull,( we talked for about 1/2 an hour. Went with that.
Made 2 strops with a crude handle from some old shelf pieces. Used wood glue and stacked 4 dictionarys on each overnight.
I roughed the leather up with a dollar store plastic pot scrubber thing,(1 for each strop), then applied compounds.
I feel it is working very well. The strop takes off the burr that can go from side to side with the 1000gr Lansky stone. A couple of times I must have rolled the edge a little, but a couple of light passes with the ex. fine stone brings it right back to where I started.
My knived were sharp berore but now they shave without hardly feeling it. They shave phonebook paper effortlessly.
After what all of you have said I am going to make another strop and use "unloaded" after the loaded strops.
Thanks again.:thumbup:

 

[stitchawl]

After what all of you have said I am going to make another strop and use "unloaded" after the loaded strops.
Thanks again.:thumbup:

Use the 'smooth' side of the leather for that final strop unless your edges are convex.

You can make that bare leather work even better by quickly dipping it in water, then letting it dry a bit until the color is beginning to return to normal. Then use a heavy rolling pin (a marble one used for pastry is best) and roll on that leather for a while. You don't need to bear down on it. Your not trying to flatten it, you're just trying to roll on it for a while. Yes, it will become flatter/thinner, but that isn't the purpose. Working the leather like this will help bring the natural silicates down in the leather up to the surface. Those little suckers are the stuff that really will get your edges where you want them to be! After 20-30 minutes of rolling, stop, and let the leather dry completely, then glue it to a nice base. THAT will be your finishing strop!

If you want, you can give that strop a bit of Lexol or good quality shoe cream once a year or so to rejuvenate the leather.



Stitchawl

 

[Jameson]

Stitch,

Does "boning" leather as you describe above for only 30 mins or so have a large effect? My understanding was it had to be done for a few hours, rewetting as you go...? I am asking ?'s....

Also, I have some HA strops (an old PC-10 unit) that has a textured portion (bottom 1/2) and folds over to a top section of smooth leather. I have always used the bottom part with green powder (little bit of olive oil to make paste) and wipe it with a paper towel when it gets grey/black from use. I dont let it get really shiny, and it has nice "fingers" on it always. I do sand it every year or so. It is 12 years old.

In regards to the top "smooth" leather, can I sand this, will that help bring up silicates? I do wipe it with a wet paper towel every month or so to clean it, and I have given it a quick rub with an olive oil wetted paper towel once a year. It soaks up any oil in a split second, and it does not even darken it. The leather works to produce a really shaving sharp edge (it comes off the rough leather nearly as sharp to be honest) but I am wondering if I can make it work better.

Any advice is appreciated.

JC

 

[stitchawl]

Stitch,

Does "boning" leather as you describe above for only 30 mins or so have a large effect? My understanding was it had to be done for a few hours, rewetting as you go...? I am asking ?'s....

30 minutes will work better than nothing. An hour will be even better. Six hours will be better than that. But how many people do you know that will actually do it for more than 30 minutes, if they do it at all. The old "Russian Leather" razor strops were boned as full skins, pulling them over the rounded ends of logs for several days, not just a few hours. That's why they were so expensive, and why you can't get them today without spending hundreds of dollars, and even then, the leather has been machine-boned.

In regards to the top "smooth" leather, can I sand this, will that help bring up silicates?

I doubt it. The silicates are not in some sub-layer of the skin. They are all through the cell structure of the entire skin. Boning causes them to migrate outward. Sanding would just expose new cells, and as you are sanding away the denser layer of skin, in effect you are weakening the leather. The outer layer of the hide contains the tightest cell structure, which is why the very highest quality leather mountaineering boots were always made with that layer inside. The boots could be abraded on rocks yet the strongest part of the leather was still protecting the foot.

The leather works to produce a really shaving sharp edge (it comes off the rough leather nearly as sharp to be honest) but I am wondering if I can make it work better.
Any advice is appreciated.

OK... why not get some advice from the folks who want and NEED the very sharpest edges... barbers who shave people every day. What do they use for their final edges?
High quality horsehide, smooth leather, no compound.
I've never seen nor heard of a barber sanding his strop, much less cleaning it! (They do oil them yearly.) And those guys used them many times a day, six days a week! Yet they are consistently able to produce face-shaving edges... 'Nuff said.


Stitchawl

 

[Jameson]

Thanks stitch. Looks like I am following correct procedure.

JC