Question about the elements contained in knife steel

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balisong084

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Jan 24, 2006
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I am writing a report for my college level technical report writing class, and have some questions about the elements contained in knife steels. I have been doing much research into how the differant elements effect the steel, and have been unable to find any negative effects of the elements. All I am able to find are the positive points of the elements. My questions are:

-Does anyone here have a link to a website that offers the downside and upside to each element (or wants to answer the question)

-What is the ideal mass percent for each element in the steel? (Just a general guidline)

If anyone can give me a answer or provide a link it would be a life saver and I will be forever in debt to you!!


(I wasn't sure if I should post this here or in the general knife discusion thread so if a mod thinks it belongs there then please move it.)
 
a good website to start would be Crucible steel
another is Angelfire
crucible is a great company that does a lot of homework on metals and the different element's that do-should go into the different steel's they make .
Angelfire is a website for Forging thing's knives included .
you might contact the A.B.S to see who is their top metal guru
Wayne Goddard in Eugene is a old hamerhead with some good knowledge about different steel's as is Ed Fowler .
all you can do is ask !! all they can say is NO !! whatcha got to loose ??
good luck ..
 
Nevermind. You limited yourself to knife steels and my post didnt. I didnt see/read that part. See the above from Pinoy, and also peruse the Tool Steels volume of the Metals Handbook if you have a library near by. Keep in mind that many, if not most, alloys used for knives were intended to do something else, they just happen to work for knives too.
 
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What constitutes a negative effect depends on what the expectations are...
For example If you want corrosion resistance, chromium is an asset, but
if you're going for a hamon, it's a real liability, because it induces deeper
hardening...so will minimize or eliminate the hamon(quench line).
 
Thanks guys, you've definantly pointed me in the right direction.

The report I'm writing takes place in a fictious setting in which I am writing a report on selecting a standard issue knife for a police department. The trouble that I'm running into right now (besides the forementioned one) is that it is suppose to be limited to fifteen pages. Right now I am at fifteen pages with much more information to include, plus I haven't even added any of the diagrams or pictures that I plan on including. I suppose I'm going to have to cut out a lot of the information I included.
 
If you need to condense it a bit, why not just focus on steel choice based on global characteristics of the steel rather than breaking it into the alloying components? You can mention the positives characteristics brought about by alloying element X,Y, and Z for the chosen steel while discussing why steels A, B, and C would not make the best choice.

--nathan
 
silver_pilate said:
If you need to condense it a bit, why not just focus on steel choice based on global characteristics of the steel rather than breaking it into the alloying components? You can mention the positives characteristics brought about by alloying element X,Y, and Z for the chosen steel while discussing why steels A, B, and C would not make the best choice.

--nathan
Click to expand...

Good suggestion, but before I start doing that I think I'll edit out my page and a half covering the characteristics of pocket clips, or the two pages I have on differant blade coatings, or the half of page on different types of sheaths! LOL. I shouldn't have chosen to do a report on something I'm passionate about, it becomes way to in depth!

Another general question if anyone cares to answer. Do you think I should cover HRC before or after mentioning steel characteristics? Consider the fact that I am handing in the report to someone that has little knowlege on knives. When I put it either way it just doesn't seem to flow with the report.
 
Seems like you're trying to deal with too much all at once.....
I'd suggect narrowing your focus....considerably.....Pick a well
defined topic, and address that topic without letting the
sub-topics lead you too far afield.
Rmember the KISS principal.

.02...
 
A goof starting point would be Kevin Cashen's website. IIRC, their are a couple of elements that are disadvantageous for us knifemakers to some degree, but that have properties that are beneficial for other applications like ease of machining. Stuff like excess sulphur comes to mind.
 
You're trying to cover too much in 15 pages !....The free machining grades have inherent brittleness which I don't think should be in a blade .Yet I know some use steels like 440F for blades - not for me.
Commercial choice of blade steels depends on cost vs performance.Costs include cost of steel ,costs of grinding, costs of HT .Some steels like H1 are prehardened by the steel maker , requiring only grinding by the blade maker.Blade use determines steel requirements also.
Hardness should be mentioned as a trade off between wear resistance and toughness .
 
I think there are too many interdependencies going on to be able to suggest an optimum alloy content for that application, alloy by alloy. For example, 14% chrome would give you good corrosion resistance - unless there was more than 1% carbon - which would gobble it up in carbides - unless there was a lot of vanadium that would gobble up the carbon first etc... And, a particular alloy can behave quite differently depending upon the HT. It would boggle my mind trying to write such a paper with any real hope of arriving at legitimate conclusions. A good reality check might be to define what you want out of the knife - and find a proven steel for that application and look at the alloying used?
 
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