question concerning abuse regarding wood craft

C

Cliff Stamp

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There is an arguement being made now concerning use of knives for wood craft that it is abusive when batoning if the handle of the knife goes off the horizontal centerline and that this can be expected to break even quality knives. Does this hold true for a Camp Tramp or Battle Rat?

-Cliff
 
I'm having a tough time picturing exactly what you mean. :confused:

Yet, somehow I'm anxious to weigh in on this one. ;)
 
260,

Cliff is saying this as I understand it: in regards to holding the knife while batoning - it is obviously best to have the knife from the spine to the edge perpendicular to the earth's surface.

If you hold off this line one way or the other, if the your wrist is not straight up and down, then undue stress is placed on the knife.

Cliff is asking if any Rats have broken when held off center, or otherwise.

Perhaps Eric can answer as to what has came into the shop for warranty repair/replacement.

As I have stated before, I do not believe this to be abuse in the least bit. Even if one does not hold the knife straight up and down. It is being hit with a piece of wood while resting on a piece of wood. No wood has the rockwell of a Rat, or other quality knife.

BTW, I have a Camp Tramp that I purchased off of 360, and it is good to go. It looks like he has beat the hell out of it...um...I mean it has a lot of character, :D and yet it is still a hard working knife with no problems.
 
Terry Newton said:
260,
As I have stated before, I do not believe this to be abuse in the least bit. Even if one does not hold the knife straight up and down. It is being hit with a piece of wood while resting on a piece of wood. No wood has the rockwell of a Rat, or other quality knife.
Click to expand...

Watch out 360, you've been demoted. :D

I think you're quite right as to it not being abusive.

As chipping or indenting of the spine isn't the concern, the hardness of the baton really doesn't matter--I could bolt the handle of a Steel Heart to the edge of a wooden table and hit the protruding blade with a 15 pound sledge (rockwell about 40-45) and it'd snap it in a heartbeat. In fact, since mis-aligned batoning is a lateral stress, the harder the blade the more prone to breaking it will be.

That said, a wooden baton that you'll be using in the field (or even *shudder* a typical hammer) is a far cry from a 15 lb. sledge, and I don't think the type of work described would be a challenge for the Rats, unless you're batoning through massive amounts of ironwood and your technique is just beyond horrible. I'd think the differential tempering of the larger Rats would be more ideal, versus the thru-hardened smaller ones, but I think that's largely an academic difference in this case. Kind of like saying that, in their primes, Ali could beat me to a pulp better than Foreman could. It might be true, but either way it wouldn't be much of a fight. ;)

Where that knife failed was its sharp, unradiused tang. Swamp Rat tangs, hidden and exposed, are all about curves. Setting aside any differences in the steel and heat-treat (which would be enough all on their own), design alone sets the Rats up to better cope with this type of work.
 
Thanks for clearing that up for me guys. That is what I thought you meant, Cliff.

I just can't imagine calling that "abuse". I mean, obviously you're going to TRY to keep the blade pointed straight down, but harder woods tend to have grains that twist a bit, which may force the knife to slant. So, what? Is someone suggesting that it's abuse to try to split this type of wood?

I have never thought twice about using any of my Rats hard and would honestly be very surprised if any damage was done to one by this type of use, and frankly, I'd be extremely disappointed if, while using another brand knife in this manner, it broke. (People aren't suggesting that we'd be brain dead enough to actually hit the blade laterally instead of continuing to hit the spine, are they?)

I go out and use my knife nearly every weekend, in non-survival situation, and I use my blades HARD. If a knife is going to fail on me, this is when I would want it to happen. My Rats have always been up to the challenge and because of this, I have all the confidence in the world that this knife will perform if it should be called upon in a life threatening situation.

The reason that I love Swamp Rat knives is that I don't have to think about any of these little nitpicky things while I use my blade. I know that it can handle it.

:cool: -360
 
Terry Newton said:
BTW, I have a Camp Tramp that I purchased off of 360, and it is good to go. It looks like he has beat the hell out of it...um...I mean it has a lot of character, :D and yet it is still a hard working knife with no problems.
Click to expand...

Don't do anything that I wouldn't do with that knife, TN. ;)

I still miss the Tramp. That is a great blade. :D
 
360joules said:
Is someone suggesting that it's abuse to try to split this type of wood?
Click to expand...

Yes, two people have broken Cold Steel blades batoning and discussed it pubically and and several people are contenting that it was due to the blade not being horizontal during the batoning. Ref :

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360675

This contains links to Knifeforms which discusses the subject and condems the user of blade broken in a similar manner as being in error and his technique is what broke the knife.

-Cliff
 
Thanks Cliff. Interesting read.

It pains me to watch as people create these far fetched yet impressively detailed scenerios to explain what caused a knife to break. They make up an excuse which somehow enables them to continue their "blind faith" loyalty to a knife which is clearly not up to the task. Ignoring what they see with their own eyes in favor of some concocted scenerio is a severe lapse in judgement.

A knife broke while performing a task...buy a better knife. ;)

:D -360
 
360joules said:
A knife broke while performing a task...buy a better knife.
Click to expand...

This is the critical point that is always missed, because something is a problem for one knife it is then spammed as abusive across all knives. The basic reasoning is that isn't a flaw if everything is so limited, this of course isn't the case. All it takes is one maker willing to say "No, that isn't abusive." and then the rest are stuck with public statements of inferiority.

-Cliff
 
While I am interested in hearing about Cold Steel knives breaking, I make it a point to never discuss things pubically! :eek:
Denis
 
DPris said:
While I am interested in hearing about Cold Steel knives breaking, I make it a point to never discuss things pubically! :eek:
Denis
Click to expand...

Denis, I respect that.

Just to avoid any confusion, I am talking about knives in general and what I expect of them. The only specific brand name that I mention is Swamp Rat, and I have only good things to say.

The specific argument about that particular maker's knife can stay over on that other thread. I just feel fortunate that I have found a knife that I don't have to worry about these types of issues.

The general argument (which I now understand correctly :rolleyes: ), that it is abuse to baton a knife while it isn't perfectly parallel, is an interesting way to maintain faith that a certain knife will do a job.

Cheers,

:D -360
 
DPris said:
While I am interested in hearing about Cold Steel knives breaking, I make it a point to never discuss things pubically!
Click to expand...

This is a great way to propogate hype. There needs to be a balance of perspective, both good and bad.

-Cliff
 
Uh....
Pubically, in conjunction with a discussion of knives, instills visions of Lorena Bobbit. :eek:
Talking about knives PUBLICLY, however, is much more socially acceptable. :p
(It were a yoke! :rolleyes: :D )
Denis
 
DPris said:
Uh....
Pubically, in conjunction with a discussion of knives, instills visions of Lorena Bobbit. :eek:
Talking about knives PUBLICLY, however, is much more socially acceptable. :p
(It were a yoke! :rolleyes: :D )
Denis
Click to expand...

I think that this entire thread is an indicator that I need to read more carefully. :D
 
DPris said:
Talking about knives PUBLICLY, however, is much more socially acceptable.
Click to expand...

Yes, but in pubic discussions people tend to be more honest, everything is out in the open.

-Cliff
 
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