Question for all you hot shot folder makers! :D

Oh, I meant to ask you guys, does it make any sense using steel, like ats-34, for the liners on a folder? I got to thinking and it just seemed like heat treated steel liners would make a stronger knife. That a dumb idea???? Thanks!!

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Take care!! Michael

Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!
http://www.nebsnow.com/L6steel
Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms!!!
 
Michael, Do you have computor to use for a cad program? I have had good luck designing my knives on a simple program (to make sure all the clearances clear).
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Thats my first step. I didn't always have that and prior to that I used tracing paper on a glass table with a light under it it be able to pivot the blade into the handle and check clearances. After that all works I transfer the pattern onto thin templates. I then use the templates to make my knife and liners. Works well this way. Also from alot of my mistakes over the last 2 years I would like to recommend this.
(learned all of these the hard way!)

1. Imperative that everything is extremely flat. Otherwise you get into alot of trouble later on!

2. Material removed can't be replaced!

3. I always drill liners together as well as ream them together. This way all the holes line up!

4. Make sure that the table to your drill press is flat! If it is leaning a little one way or another you can imagine the problems that will arise as the blade opens and closes!
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Any questions along the way feel free to email me anytime.
 
Mike, you know I'm not a knifemaker, but a secret desire is that after I retire and get out of NY is to have a shop where I can make furniture as well as knives. I've been designing knives for a couple of years and I've been lucky enough to find makers to execute some of them for me.
If I were in your position I would read everything I could lay my hands on. I would then visit every maker that would allow me to visit their shop for even and hour. When I'm ready one of those makers would be you. My guess is by the time I'm ready you'll have folders mastered.
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Well I got the book (The Tactical Folding Knife) and it is GREAT! I dont think I am making one as he describes anytime soon though. Think I better start making a few folder kits to get an idea as to how these things goes together. Seems pretty exact. Thats the one thing about fixed blades that I like is that you dont have to get to the 0.05 acuracy. Has anyone experimented with folders since this thread was posted?

Michael
 
Micheal
ATS34 might be a bad choice because it gets a lot of its corrosion resistance from being heat treated. RC's in the spring range might not be hard enough to make it resist rusting. Liners aren't all that hard if I remember right. They have to be springy, but they can't be so hard that they snap under stress.
If I remember right, Kit Carson uses 420 for alot of his steel liners. You can get 6/4 Ti from Les Halpern for pretty cheap. Less than a dollar per square inch on 1/8" like you'd use for a frame lock or for scales. Cheaper still for liner material. And you don't have to have it heat treated
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Have Fun.

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I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer... but I've got the sharpest knife in the room.

[This message has been edited by Matt Shade (edited 12-25-2000).]
 
like timmy said somewhere else....we could tell you..........but then we'd have to kill you.................merry Christmas!!!!
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Go ahead Tom, pull another tooth but pull it real slow and twist it as it comes out !!! Ughhhhhhhhhh!
I messed up the folder I was making with the ats34 liners and such and got a tad poed and hammered it into the Yogi wall. Day or two later I looked up at it and pulled it out of the wall and checked the workin parts, they're fine. I'm gonna try making some liners with some 60 thousandths ti I got. I did find one thing out using Tom's tip for squaring up my drill press. I bent a piece of wire into a z and chucked it up. Then raised the table till the wire was real close and spun it by hand. The thing is dead on square side to side but about 1/16" off, front to back. I guess I need to shim the table where it bolts to the post. Thanks Tom!!

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Take care!! Michael

Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!
http://www.nebsnow.com/L6steel
Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms!!!
 
I have made 7 liner locks now. The book helped alot but I found that the back spacer could be longer and used for the blade stop instead of the stop pin. It is easier to fine tune also. I have more trouble drilling the hole for the detent ball in the correct place than any other part. I finally figured out that the liner can be bent and tweaked enough to compensate for some miscalculations. I use up alot of the 2-56 torx screws also. I bought 100 of them and only have a couple left.
 
Bruce:

I hope the following posting helps. If not, email, call, or write and I'll try to clarify it for you.
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Tom Anderson
Hand Crafted Knives

[This message has been edited by Tom Anderson (edited 12-28-2000).]
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom Anderson:
Bruce:

Installing a detent ball can be tricky. Here's how I do it -

Using a #53 split point 135 degree cobalt drill, drill a hole in your lock deep enough so the detent ball won't pop out. (If you're using a 1/16" ball, the full diameter should be more than 1/32" deep.

Place the hole as close to the pivot as possible. On a right hand knife, the hole should be in the upper right corner of the lock.

Place the detent ball on top of the undersized hole and stake it in place with a 1/8" diameter punch.

Put the knife together and open and close the blade fully several times. Take the knife apart and check to see if the detent ball has scribed a line on the blade. (If not, you may want to put bluing or magic marker on the blade and try again until you have a good, visible scribe line.)

The socket in the blade should be slightly off center - away from the end of the scribed arc. If the blade has not yet been heat treated, use a centerpunch and punch a mark about .010" off the end of the arc. Start the socket in the blade with the #53 drill. (If the blade is already heat treated, you'll need to use a solid carbide drill.) Drill only to the depth of the full drill diameter. (This makes a conical divot in the blade.) Then, use a 3/32" drill and do the same, being careful not to drill so deep that you start putting a hole in the blade.

Put the knife together and see if the detent ball pulls the blade in near the closed position. If the divot and detent ball don't engage, or if they barely engage (evidenced by a notable gap between the blade and lock when the knife is closed and no movement of the lock toward the blade when closing), use the next largest size drill.

Ideally, the detent should pull the blade in when closing and a small gap should remain between the lock and blade when closed. If the detent ball is riding on the lead angle of the conical divot, it not only pulls the blade in but allows for nominal wear of the action.

The "feel" of this depends on the geometry you created by drilling the conical divot in the blade, the smoothness of the action, and the stiffness of the lock.

Don't be discouraged if you don't get it right the first time, every time. It takes a lot of practice!

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Tom Anderson
Hand Crafted Knives
 
I'll bet that Darrel Ralph liner lock kit available from Koval Knives could be a great way to get started.
 
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