Question for Bader III and KMG owners...

[razorhunter]

Guys,
I asked this on another forum, and forgot to ask a couple things, so here goes.
First off, I plan on purchasing a Bader III or KMG grinder in the future. As of now, I'm building a few new workbenches to accomodate knifemaking.
I have been told that a workbench that is 24" out from the wall (wide), will be just enough for the grinder to sit on, without hitting the wall in the back. I will probably go ahead and build it 28" or 30" wide (out from the wall)
Now, I forgot to ask what the optimum height the workbench should be for the grinder? Do most of you sit down or stand up? What would be best? I think 35" or 36" is usually a standard workbench height, but that is not necessarily the correct height for a bench made for a grinder. Or is it?

Now, I would also like to know if any of you have your grinder mounted to one of those roll around carts with locking wheels? Is this even possible/feasible with the pressures you sometimes put on a grinder? Please understand fellas, I am just getting started with serious grinding, so I'm not too sure.
I don't have a window to set the grinder in front of, so I thought about a rolling cart, that could be rolled over in front of the back door, to allow the particles to escape outside while grinding.
If this is not possible, I'm going to look into a dust collection system, and I would like some recommendations there also. Are the cheaper Delta $200 - $300 dust collectors any good? Basically, I'm trying to keep the toxic particles to a minimum, and having no window to set the grinder in front of doesn't help matters.
If any of you are using Dust Collectors, OR those Air Filter machines, I would appreciate your input.
Finally, I of course, will be using a respirator too.
Thanks for any help guys.
Paul C

 

[T Blade]

Paul,

As far as the height of the work bench. I'm relitivaly new at knife making, but, my set up (MMG AKA Mickey Mouse Grinder) is a copy of Rob Frink's KMG. I bought the drive, idler wheels and platen from Rob. I grind while standing and I have the platen set at a height where my arms are approximately parallel with the floor.

I made my work bench with a 24" X24" top, with wheels so I could move it around the shop, bad idea, even when the wheels are chocked the pressure from grinding wants to flip the bench, the only way to get around this for me is to set the bench against the wall. The demensions of a 2' X2' top are OK, the machine does not extend from the back of the bench.

I too need to make or purchase a dust collecting system.

Larry T

Member of NECKA & NCCA

 

[C L Wilkins]

Grinder height is pretty important. It is more critical if hollow grinding than flat grinding unless you are using a tool rest. Some folks use a tool rest, most don't. (Some folks sit while grinding as well.)

The height depends on how tall you are, basically. One size does not fit all. This is something that you will have to find out for yourself.

Craig

 

[tmickley]

All of my benches are 36" which puts the apex of an 8" wheel just above my belly button which makes my arms more or less horizontal when grinding. I am 5" 10". Hope that helps.

 

[blgoode]

I am 5'8" so I built mine at 35" high. What I also have are 2 3/4" plywood pieces that are about 3' x 2'. If I want to make the grinder lower...I just stand on a piece of 3/4" plywood. Pretty simple to raise the floor than the benchtop My benches are 23.75" wide also. Just to get the maximum out of a piece of plywood. I got 2 10' x 23.75" and 2 4' x 23.75" work surfaces out of 2 4' x 8' pieces of plywood.

Hope I hepled. oh...I just used 2 x 4's to make a frame and then screwed that up with 45 degree braces to the wall. Then I put my plywood down and used a 1/4" roundover bit in my router. Looks good too

 

[H.L. Holbrook]

I hollow grind sitting on a tall stool and stand for everything else. My bench is around 40" tall and 24" wide, it could stand to be a couple of inches wider. This worked fine with a Square Wheel and JL. I later bought a Bader B-III. The Bader is about 4" taller than my older grinders so I had to build a platform to stand on while working at the Bader. So you might want to wait until you get your grinder to build your bench.

As for dust collection I bought a unit from Granger supply that just exhausts the dust outside, if that is an option for you. Let me know I'll be glad to look up the part number. I also use one of those overhead wood working air filters to catch a lot of the airborne stuff. I just leave it running all the time.

 

[razorhunter]

Hey Holbrook!
Yes, the Granger information would be wonderful! I have a Granger right up the road, and I was going to go and check out what they had, so I would love some more details about your system. The overhead "woodworking air filters" too! Thanks so much. I would love to see a pic of your awesome setup too!

 

[SBS*11BRAVO]

I was told a bench should be as high as the "bottom corner " of your jeans pocket. Were the rivet would be on LEVI's. This is were your hand falls naturaly.I tried it and it seems to be true. Hope this helps.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

One important consideration on dust collectors is that your grinder (and dust collector) may be used for wood as well as metal.The sparks thrown from a coarse grit belt can be ignited by the rush of air as they are drawn into a dust collector,and can set the whole thing on fire.A dedicated -metal only- system is desirable.Another alternative is to use an evacuation system.It just removes the particles from the work area.I have one in my grinding shop powered by a good size squirrel cage fan (they are cheap and available everywhere).It uses 6" PVC and flexible 6" hosing.It sends the dust and grit outside where it settles in the creek.Since it is just steel and wood it does no harm.Before this system I used a roll around dust collector from my wood shop.Bad idea! I know other makers have used dust collectors for both wood and metal,but you are playing Russian Roulette if you do.
As to height,put your elbows tight to your sides.Stick your fists straight out.That's where the work should be done.Measure this and make the bench height such that the bar of the grinder is that high.
SA

 

[razorhunter]

Thanks for the info bud.
My HVAC buddy gets free squirrel cages of EVERY size regularly. However, I would need to know how to build the system. Do you just run a flexible piping from your grinder to the squirrel cage, and then from the squirrel cage to outside? In other words, the squirrel cage is in between your grinder and outside, creating a SUCTION to the outdoors?
Any other tips I should heed when setting this up? Thanks.

(I'm sitting here trying to think of how to connect up the piping to the oblong, ODD shaped squirrel cage....

 

[Mike Hull]

You can get a spark/fire suppression box from John Mallett at Tru Grit.
That way you can use your system for wood, and metal, safely.

They've been in use for a long time, but you don't see much about them for some reason.

I don't believe they are listed on the website, you'll have to talk to John about them.
http://www.trugrit.com/

 

[rfrink]

Here are a couple pics of my KMG stand. The stand is welded from 2" sq tubing and mounted on locking casters. This allows me to roll it where ever needed. I used the KMG-SUBP base plate which is bolted to the stand. The motor is a 1-1/2 hp Leeson running on 110V with a set of step pulleys for speed selection. Notice the tooling arm rack.... On my first stand, I kept the arms below the grinder....where they always got buried in grit and dust...(ick!)....so on this stand, the spare arms are all above the grinder....in easy reach and always clean. The arms slip into the 2" square tubing receivers.

For my needs...I keep the following tools set-up: 8" contact wheel, platen attachment,slack belt attachment, and a small wheel attachment. The contact wheel and platen attachment both have a work rest on them.


Note the rack for hanging belts and the power cord wrap cleats. The idea was to make everything compact to quickly stow away...but self contained so I had everything I need within quick reach. This is the third iteration of the stand...and I'm very pleased with it. If I built another....I doubt that I would change anything.

...............

Hopefully this will spark some ideas for your own set-up.

-Rob

 

[blgoode]

Damn
http://www.bgoodeknives.com/images/shopnew.jpg
this is my basic set up. Makeshift shelf for the tool arms and the belts hang just out of picture on the left I may have to move my tool arms out of dusts harm.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

razorhunter - Yes,it is just a suction system that has 6" PVC going to the blower,and from it to the outside.I stick the flex hose on the intake pipe (which is at mid-wall level).When not using the belt grinder I unplug the hose and the system provides dusty air and smoke removal from the shop.I made an adapter to hook up a shop vac hose and can suck out all the floor dust and stuff that settles all around the grinder.Works pretty good.I would not recommend it for someone who has a neighbors house on the muzzle end of the exhaust pipe.Perhaps a 90 degree down turn and a catch barrel would keep the cloud from drifting.In my case it doesn't matter.
Mike is right that you can install a fire suppressor /spark arrestor in the line.I know of one system that uses a 35 gallon plastic pickle drum with the inlet facing down and the outlet facing sideways.There is a foot long divider between the two.The drum is half filled with water.The hose from the grinder goes on the inlet,and the vacuum hose goes on the outlet.Seems pretty simple,and works well.He has to dump the sludge every now and then.

 

[H.L. Holbrook]

Razorhunter the blower I mentioned in my post is a Dayton Radial Blade Blower model number 2C864. Granger sells this one along with several other Dayton blowers. They are made like a squirrel cage but have a different type fan inside the blower. I mounted mine on the outside of the shop, but if I had it to do over I would mount it inside and just run a piece of duct outside. I just used 4" plastic PVC on the inside. I'm probably the only person in the world that doesn't have a digital camera or I would post a photo.

 

[razorhunter]

Thanks fellas.
NOt too sure if I understand how the guy is using the barrel-half-full-of-water-system, however, I understand what his purpose is. Just not how it works. I guess a pic is worth a thousand words.
Thanks so much for the replies though fellas. I'll figure out the best way somehow. You guys have some good ideas...