Question for collectors about thumbstuds?

Chuck Gedraitis Knives

Chuck Gedraitis Knives

Joined
Dec 10, 1998
Messages
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I make all my own thumbstuds. I usually try to make them flow with the style and size of the knife. Some customers have difficulty with them. I have no problems but then i'm used to them.

Keep in mind I am speaking about art knives.
What type do you perfer?

Would you rather them be longer so the edge of your thumb catches?

Or would you rather them be a larger diameter for more purchase area?

Or would you rather a "sharp" edge for your thumb to catch on?

Does the position on the blade make a difference? When the knife is closed either closer to the tip of the bolster or closer to the midline of the knife?

Knurling or filework helps for grip but sometimes knives are very thin and narrow and there isn't a lot to hold onto while opening the knife.

Thank you for your opinions,
Chuck
 
I like pyramid shaped thumbstudss, I find them easier to use than classic ones.

thumbstud.jpg


Generally speaking, I think fat "normal" thumbstuds are better than narrow long ones.
As for position - where linerlock would meet the tang, is IMHO fine distance for thumbstud.

BTW the MOP folder is breathtaking :thumbup:
 
Personally, I like thumdisks or spiderholes much better.

WRT thumbstud, what is important to me is that they be easy to reach. I have a medium sized hands with avg strength in my fingers, and sometimes I have difficulties. For example:

- The spring maintains the blade closed too strongly;

- The thumbstud is located too close to the (imaginary) line that runs from the blade pivot to the end of the handle. What that means is that you have to exercise a force that is exactly perpendicular to that line to get the blade out. On other folders the thumbstud is positioned far enough from this line that you can basically push up (in a direction near parallel to this line). Personally, I have trouble exercising this force exactly perpendicular to the direction of the handle, and that's why I have difficulties with most slim folder (e.g., I can't open the ATCF easily).

- Related to the above, the further away the thumbstud is from the pivot, the less force is needed to open the blade (fulcrum effect). So all things being equal, I like pivots that are further away from the pivot.
 
I like rounded thumbstuds, like what is on my Matt C. knife, my Atwood Solar Arc & Patrick Nihiser "Little Teaser" knives. They are perfect for me, and make it easy to open my knife.
 
Hey Chuck,

Having had a chace to see some different designs my preferance is that you hold the knife and slid the thumb over the scale and I find naturally the opening method. By changing it's size, location, and texture. Or even just one of the might be the trick. If the knife has a thumb stud that's close or on to the handle, I would like it to be higher than the scales and sharp. Also, I don't want to mussle though the tension in opening in an uncomfortable hand position (where also I might drop it0>

With your knives make them a "tad" higher and have a sharp edge. With all this typing, people have tired hands. IMHO

Remerber that not everyone is as youthful as ourselves. :foot:
 
striper28 said:
Thanks guys, let me add that I am speaking about art knives.
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I find myself wondering why you emphasize this. Do you not believe "art knives" should also have the same performance/function as a using knife? If you are working from the standpoint that they shouldn't be used or carried, why heat treat the blades, etc?

My opinion may not be what you're after, since I'm not an advanced collector. I only own one high dollar folder, but even though I don't intend to pry doors open with it, I do slip it in my suit pocket when I'm feeling the need for classy accessories.

I do not like thumb studs that stick above flush with the handle scales, and if they do, I especially wouldn't want it to have "grabby" edges. I had one such knife that loved to open itself in my pocket because of this; it was simply unsafe to carry. At the very least, besides the holes in my pants, the agressive thumb stud would catch and snag when removing it from my pocket, and I don't want my $700 suit all chewed up since I'm too poor to replace it now.
 
I have handled a gazillion 'art folder' knives and it is an area that is well-handled by some and overlooked by others.

First things first:
Some customers have difficulty with them. I have no problems but then i'm used to them.
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Please your customers. Forget about flow for a moment, because you have left style to the overall design of the knife, and now you are entering function. As Possum aptly describes, this should be a working knife, regardless of the occasion.

Grip: That said, the majority of well-suited thumbstuds I have felt are NOT rounded at the top. In fact this works against you. The dominant grip area is the edge at the top. You can create any mushroom shape, imbed a jewel in the center, have it protrude well-above the bolster, but if you simply keep a keen edge on the top the user will not have to press down for grip, but rather they can push outward.

(When I was making kits, I purposely ground the tip of the factory rounded studs (as in the photo above). It made a notable ease difference. To me.)

Joss mentioned geometry, and this is a real consideration also. Here is where you may have to do some pre-thought homework, if you don't already. I am not implying you don't configure your designs first, but to be able to optimize a design, there must be a best placement.

For you, a thing that works against you is your standard that no two knives will be alike. (I believe you have mentioned this before.) That's OK, but it creates a different optimum point of geometry for each and every knife. You may have a ratio that is ideal and applies to each new model. Probably a good thing, as long as the bolster clears.

(My favorite maker's thumbstud (for his designs) is Charlie Dake. It's a BIG FAT sharp-edged cylinder with teeth cut at the top edge. He fills the center with exotica materials. Grip and GO!)

Good question, Chuck. It's a valid topic. I only offer my considerations. Others may not agree.

Coop
 
Possum,
Way to read into a statement! I stated that I was refering to art knives because 1. that's what I make and 2. I don't think that thumb discs belong on art knives.

Here's the delima, you can't make one style of thumbstud for everyone. Some will say it's too short and others will say, like yourself that it's too long. Some people like stones set into the thumbstuds and some like filework. Some people have large hands and others have small.

How Do I cover all the bases?

I'm just looking for an opinion on what the average thumbstud should be like so that it can be opperated by anyone including one's grandmother.
 
striper28 said:
Possum,
Way to read into a statement!
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Apologies, Striper. No offense intended.

striper28 said:
I stated that I was refering to art knives because 1. that's what I make and 2. I don't think that thumb discs belong on art knives.
Click to expand...

I did not see the logical connection here, because I thought you were referring to art folders in general; not just ones made by you. And now I can see the reason for the emphasis on art knives since by your definition they do not have thumb discs, and other poster mentioned them. However, I did not know about this definition of yours, and do not personally agree anyway.

striper28 said:
Here's the delima, you can't make one style of thumbstud for everyone. Some will say it's too short and others will say, like yourself that it's too long. Some people like stones set into the thumbstuds and some like filework. Some people have large hands and others have small.

How Do I cover all the bases?
Click to expand...

I like the way you've phrased it here, and now am clear on what you were asking. So, you can ignore the first part of my earlier post and only read the part about my preferance, if you find it helpful.

Cheers.
 
The knives you showed in the first post wouldn't make it in my hands because the stud is too close to the scale. I wouldn't even pick it up off your table.

You may want go around and try other maker's knives to see how the geometry and different styles works in your hands.

You may want to make some simple prototype knives to try out your thumbstuds.

Don't constrain yourself by what you think doesn't belong on an art knife. A thumb disc or hole can work well if you do it right. Try scupltured blades where part of the blade acts as the area where you get purchase. David Boye casts a design in his blades and the recessed area and design gives all the purchase you need to open the knife. Also, who says the knife has to be open one handed? I know it's a cliche, but "think outside your box." Finally, asks the people who handle your knives at shows what they think and how it could be improved...who knows you may find there is a consensus.
 
A couple of thoughts. The purpose of the stud (disk or hole) is to open the blade one handed with ease. I don't think it makes too much of a difference what the knife's intended purpose is. A stud should work well or an alternative opening method should be considered (like a flipper or nail indentation). I find there are generally two designs. The first is the type of folder that is designed to open easily with a light flick of the thumb (ie Marlowe, Carson, Fraley). These tend to have the stud a bit closer to the pivot, a fairly free swinging pivot (? phos-bronze washers?), and the detente set to require enough force so that, once overcome, the blade flies open. The other type of folder seems more designed for the application of steady thumb pressure throughout the arc of opening (ie Mayo, Lightfoot, Sawby). The stud (hole) tends to be a bit farther from the pivot and the pivot tension is firmer (buttery). I can't say I like one better than the other, they're different and each have advantages and disadvantages. A couple of other thoughts. One thing I don't like is when the stud or hole is too close to the frame/scale. It's easy to slip off the stud or not get positive pressure on it, particularly with gloves on or if the pivot is tight. I don't like a stud to be too sharp or too smooth, I've owned examples of both. I do like some texture to it for secure purchase. Hope that helps.
 
Hi Bruce,
I have considered that but I don't like to use stop pins on my knives. The New England way is full backbar with filework.

Now a few replies have stated that the thumbstud can't be too close to the frame. A cutout in the bolster could solve this but I feel that it breaks up the lines of the knife and won't do it.

xuesheng- When you throw other makers names into the discussion you have to consider the type of mechanisms they make. Each can affect the feel when opening.
Some make flippers, framelocks, self locks, or even use IKBS?

Some use teflon, nylatron or phosphor bronze washers, all will affect smoothness.

Lets get back to the subject.
 
striper28 said:
The New England way is full backbar with filework.
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Spoken like a snob. Bah. You can't speak for everyone in New England. This is yours and a number of other's way. And if you are really looking for outside opinions (only you can create the answer), then these comments are valid, whether you choose to use them or not.

striper28 said:
Lets get back to the subject.
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When did we leave?

Much of what I am interpreting from you are counters to the discussion, and why it won't work. :confused:

Coop
 
Coop,
You said it best, espically after handling all the knives you do. Pushing the stud outward and not downward is where I think my problem is.

I think that having to press downward will also put added pressure on the pivot taking away from smoothness.

I think i'll take some time to make a few different versions and let family members try them out over the holidays a little R&D if you will.

Regards,
Chuck
 
Chuck,

I think thumb disk-like devices can be made to go well with art knive. They might not look much like disks by then, but certainly this is not an unsurmontable creative challenge.
 
striper28 said:
Coop,
You said it best, espically after handling all the knives you do. Pushing the stud outward and not downward is where I think my problem is.

I think that having to press downward will also put added pressure on the pivot taking away from smoothness.

I think i'll take some time to make a few different versions and let family members try them out over the holidays a little R&D if you will.

Regards,
Chuck
Click to expand...

I think moving them out will also work really well for you. Much more appealing than having to use a cut out.

Joss,
Only way I would think about a disk on a art knife is if were made out of damascus.
 
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