Question for custom makers and customers

Pontiaker

Pontiaker

Joined
Sep 14, 1999
Messages
596
When I take a custom order I try and quote a realistic timeframe that I really think I can complete the order.I also try to email when the order is going to be late or early for that matter.I also normally send an email when the order is started on or as soon as its completed. My question is what do you guys think about a customer that backs out of the order beacuse of lack of funds after I email to say their order is started or almost done? Do you blow it off, get ticked off, say ok but let them know without losing your temper that its not the right thing to do? I have no problem when a customer contacts me to take them off of my list ahead of time because of whatever reason, stuff happens, tastes change etc...Iam still new to this, I think I already know the answer but always welcome your views and thoughts.Thanks guys.
Matt
 
l'd just keep the knife, or finish it if not done, and sell it to another customer...
unless it's personalized or something, then I might get ticked.

you could always take a non-refundable deposit before u start, that way in the end it doesn't seem like they are paying so much and they are pretty much tied to the knife. :cool:
 
Matt,while I don't necessarily agree with an individual backing out I think if he does not have the funds it is hard to get blood from a stone.You do have a right tobe pist but that won't change the outcome.I do think in the future if this same person was to order again from you,you would have just cause to decline the order if you chose to.So I guess my answer would be to blow it off.
 
From a customer's standpoint, the best option is to be contacted by the maker just *before* they start any work on the piece. That way the maker and the customer can make sure they're on the same track reg. specs, price, etc.

Sometimes, it's simply a question of fund availability. I have been in a situation when I had 3 knives delivered within 20 days, and it required some pretty creative banking....
 
When I place an order from a maker I consider it my responsibility to have funds available when the knife is ready. For that reason, I really appreciate a heads-up before the knife is started - particularly since delivery times can be (to say the least) somewhat variable and can really put the squeeze on if a few of them run together (as per Joss' example).

By making contact before you start the knife you not only give the customer the benefit of as much lead notice as possible, but you also protect yourself if there is any problem at the customer's end. It may be as simple as moving him down a couple slots on your order sheet to a time when he can more comfortably swing the purchase, which is, obviously, a good thing for your both.

Cheers,

Roger
 
Backing out on a custom knife purchase is pretty lame in general , but I have been in the same position as Joss. Sometimes a knives are late/early or an opportunity pops up. When you have a bunch of knives on order, it is possible to get swamped. As a customer knowing when a knife is close to starting has helped me stay out of trouble :D. The other thing is to help out with materials along the way especially if they are pricey. Sometimes a collector needs to take inventory of outstanding orders and prepare to meet their obligations by putting funds away. We can not always control our financial future and just as we like makers to communicate with us we need to communicate to a maker as soon as we see that we will not be able to meet an obligation.

Should the maker be upset? (well at least a little :)) after all they have spent their time and money for materials on making a knife that they were led to think was spoken for. Makers have families to support and bills to pay just like anyone else. In many cases, the time they spend making a knife is crucial to them for meeting their obligations. If I was a maker and those obligations were tight, I might be more than a little upset. :eek:, but it would be better to see if another customer was interested or keep the knife for something to put on my table at a show than to simmer for very long.;)
 
Thanks for the input guys, its good to hear all the sides of this.Iam still learning alot about the business end of Knifemaking.
Thanks
Matt
 
I currently dont take deposits on my orders. I dont think most custom makers do. It just comes down to I ordered alot of custom folders before I was making them and when they were ready I came up with the money, period.
 
I agree with Joss and RogerP. If I am contacted shortly before the maker begins work, I make sure the funds are available. I try to ask for a vague timeframe when I place an order, to mark it on the calendar, so I don't have too many incoming near the same date. I have had to back out on an order, I notified the maker far ahead of time and offered to pay for any materials he purchased for the order.
Btw Matt, enjoying the Sirocco thoroughly! I'll post a review this week, after I carry it a bit more.
 
Hell, you wouldn't be human if you didn't get upset or disappointed when a customer backs out of an order. I know if I were a custom maker I'd be pissed. But, I guess you have to realize that while some customers cancell because they're just flakes, I'll bet most have legit reasons for cancelling (medical, disasters, divorce, etc.)

A few years back I bought some barstools at a local furniture store. When I got 'em home my wife thought they were fugly, so the next day I brought 'em back to the store to ask for a refund. I fully expected to get a hassle from the salesman who sold 'em to me, but to my surprise, he, without question, gladly gave me a refund. When I complimented him for being so agreeable and cheerful to my refund request, he told me, "It's always been my policy to smile as wide when I refund a customer's money as I do when I take it!" I never did forget that guy, and a month later I went back and bought a bunch of stuff from him.

I guess you could apply that salesman's reasoning to the accepting of knife orders and the cancellation of those orders. Take 'em both with a smile. Seems like a good business practice. I know it made a big positive impression on me!

One of the previous posters suggested a deposit. I guess if your customer "flake-rate" is real high though, perhaps you should consider establishing a 10% up-front deposit. But if it's like 2-3%, I'd say just grin & bear it, and chalk it up to "the cost of doin' business.";)

Best,
Frank :cool:
 
This is the reason I DO NOT accept deposits from customers. People will e-mail and want one like that , only shorter, longer, fancier, etc. If it is too bozzo, I just wont do it. If it is something I an comfortable with, I tell them it will be umpteen weeks but I will will contact them. I send them a digital snapshot and say if you approve, then send money. :) works for me.
 
Very interesting thread.

First, getting upset/ticked off will do nothing more than make you feel bad, physically. The question that you need to ask yourself, "Do I need the stress. . .along with the other physical ailments that the stress could cause ?"

Second, from a business perspective, letting your customer know what transpired was not the right thing to do. . .isn't the right thing to do. Simply, what you perceive was wrong was right in the mind of your customer. And no matter the venue that you use to communicate your feelings, the chances of you looking like the bad guy would be/could be very high. The question that you need to ask yourself, from a business perspective, "Do I need that ? Can I afford to drive off future customers ?" Remember the old adage, one mad customer has the ability to tell, at least, ten possible customers. And each of those possible customers has the ability to tell ten other possible customers.

Third, as unfortunate as it may be. . .there are times when people just do not have the fundage. This could be self-inflicted (i.e., their lack of good financial management) or them being placed in that position by others. Either way, your position is still the same - - - a finished knife without a buyer. About the only thing you can do. . .try to sell it.

Does canceling an order suck ? Yep.

Was your customer right or wrong ? * shrugs shoulders *

I'll tell you a little story about the canceling knife orders and the lack of fundage. Several years ago, someone owned some rental property. A tenant did something very bad that caused a neighbor to lose their home, their car and seriously injured the old man and old lady that resided in the destroyed home. Tenant split (has yet to be located). The neighbors didn't have any insurance. Guess who was left holding the dog-do bag ? The tenants landlord (the owner of the property). A lawsuit was filed. Insurance covered a great deal of the tab. . .but not all. Let's see. . .there were legal fees and a myriad of other expenses, charges, etc. that the judge imposed on the landlord. The landlord’s house was awarded to the neighbor. Banking accounts, other investments and properties were frozen and the landlord was given a deadline to produce a very large sum of money. . .to be awarded to the landlord’s neighbor. The landlord ended up selling numerous "very high end / rare" knives, a large gathering of guns, 2 custom motorcycles, etc., etc., etc. I think you get the drift. To top it off. . .said landlord had to cancel three or four custom knife orders, due to a lack of fundage. Fortunately, the makers fully understood the predicament that the landlord was in. ;)

I'll say it again. "Does canceling an order suck ?" Yep. A lot harder and painful than anyone here will ever know ! :(

Was your customer right or wrong ? * shrugs shoulders *

The best thing to do is "blow it off." It just isn't worth your time, effort or money.
 
I'd have to agree with those that have already pointed out that the best time to contact the buyer is before you start work on the knife. By doing so, you not only give the customer some advance notice so that they can have the money ready -- or tell you that they'll have to pass, since they won't be able to have the money -- but also that you can be certain that both of you are on the same page.

Some time back, I ordered a knife from a well known maker. Did not nail down the specifics, or even the price, since the maker said that he'd get back to me. Time passes and I get an email from the maker saying that my knife was done. Unfortunately, since he'd didn't contact me before starting the project, I had to tell him that it wasn't what I wanted and that I'd wait until he was ready to build my knife. I eventually got the knife I'd been waiting for, but a lot of aggravation on both our parts could easily have been avoided.
 
I would never back out on a custom order...of course I can't wait for one to get done :D I have offered deposits before and have never had one accepted, the answer was always: "I can sell it anyway." On the other hand, I've never ordered anything way out there style wise!
 
All great stuff for a fairly new maker, thanks for the info.I got a couple emails and I do need to clarify a couple things.

1) I have no problem when someone wants to cancel an order, just let me know as soon as you can, no big deal.

2) I also have no problem giving a full refund if you dont like what I send you when you get it in hand, also not a problem at all.I would hope if you were to send it back it would be a day or two after you rcieved the knife and not a week later when the money paid off my materials charges on my credit card or otherwise spent etc...:~) I think most people would know if they liked the knife in a day or so?

Thanks guys!
Matt
 
Pontiaker said:
2) I also have no problem giving a full refund if you dont like what I send you when you get it in hand, also not a problem at all.I would hope if you were to send it back it would be a day or two after you rcieved the knife and not a week later when the money paid off my materials charges on my credit card or otherwise spent etc...:~) I think most people would know if they liked the knife in a day or so?Matt
Click to expand...

It's best to clear this up before delivery. A simple " I trust you will enjoy this knife, but if you are not happy with it for any reason, please let me know within 2,3,4, 7, whatever number of days". I agree that it should only take a customer a couple days to decide if he likes a knife, but I've seen it happen where the customer waits over a month to return a knife and then can't understand (or doesn't care) that the maker has long spent that money.

Cheers,

Roger
 
WHat I would do is this.......finish the knife. Email him saying that you are sorry that he doesnt want the knife and that it will go to another buyer. Dont take orders from HIM unless he gives you a deposite.....hell, send me the knife ;)
 
Getting upset with customers who have to cancel will just drive you crazy so don't bother. Get in the habit of taking deposits on any odd or exotic materials used to cover losses incurred by modifying knives to make them more salable.

I have two on the shelf right now, a skean dubh with a tiger eye stone set on the pommel and a D handled bowie with a left handed sheath. The D handled bowie will be no problem to make a right handed sheath for if I get someone interested in it because the knife is a regular model but the tiger eye will not appeal to everyone, it will have to be replaced depending on the eventual customer's tastes, luckily the cost of a tiger eye is not very high but the work involved will take several hours because the setting will have to be scrapped and remade. I should have insisted on a deposit on this one but didn't.

For the most part cancellation is not a problem nor is return for credit, just don't take it personally when it happens, that is life.
 
My take on custom orders is, if you wanted it so bad that you sought out a maker and discussed material etc, then you should be prepared to pay. I paid up front for a custom job a short while ago because the maker was off this forum and I checked him out beforehand.

I certainly wouldnt put time and money into something unless I was 100% sure I was going to get it back, plus some.

Maybe custom makers should form some sort of association that acts like escrow. The customer pays the money up front. The 'Custom Knife makers Escrow' thingymagig get the money, the maker gets notification of the funds, he can then buy the materials and spend time making it, sure in the knowledge that the money is there. If the buyer pulls out, he will be hit for a % of the purchase price.
 
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