Question for hunters only

Kismet · Mar 5, 2003

In Wisconsin, we have to register (gun) deer that day, so I field dress them, load 'em up, bring them in for registration, than back to the shed to hang them for skinning and butchering. I can close up the shed to keep critters (and my dog) from snacking.

Once hung, the skinning is a breeze, and then I take the electric saber saw, and split the torso down the spine, after taking out the backstrap and tenderloin. After that, I either quarter the torso, or just cut meat and bring it in to the kitchen for rinsing and packaging for the freezer. Doing it in the field would be a much more difficult task, even with the meat saw I have.

This year, I didn't shoot any, but butchered four deer given me by hunters who were spooked by the Chronic Wasting scare.

But then, venison is the only red meat I eat, unless a friend drops off a beef steak, or pork.

Yvsa · Mar 5, 2003

Originally posted by Pan Tau
... forged puuko?
firkin, where is such a thing available?

Andreas

Andreas I think most of the carbon steel Scandia knives are forged. Many of them have a softer piece of steel forged over a hard center section.
Makes for a super strong and super sharp knife!!!!

munk · Mar 5, 2003

I just wanted to say to firkin and Yvsa that it is my impression from varied readings over 30 years that men have always admired and discussed, improved and built weapons. I have to think ancient man would know differences in flint and volcanic rock materials for weapons. And bone and wood.

I think it's funny we're always trying to find one do-all vehicle, knife, gun, wife, dog, heater, and toilet.

munk

Yvsa · Mar 5, 2003

Forgot to say that I had an e-mail from Ragnar when I got home from workout.
Ragnar says my knives shipped today!!!!

I hope they get here by Saturday as I think Monday is gonna be okayed for my foot surgery.

Sylvrfalcn · Mar 5, 2003

Early shall he rise who rules few servants,
And set to work at once:
Much is lost by the late sleeper,
Wealth is won by the swift,

Just a few words from the Havamal that fit Ragnar of Elandris well. If he said your blades shipped, you'll have them very soon. Ragnar has the same magic with mail that Uncle Bill wields.

Yvsa, I'd be very interested in your impressions of the Leukko and it's suitability as a field knife. I know it's a well proven knife, but your opinion holds weight with me.

Sarge

firkin · Mar 5, 2003

"Doubt that Pleistocene people sat around and debated the best "do it all" knapped flint.

Why do you think that Firkin? I'm betting at least the flint knappers, ie the tool makers of the time did. There's actually quite a bit of difference in knapping the different materials used for tools way back when."

Re-phrase...

Doubt that Pleistocene people sat around and debated the best "do it all" knapped flint tool.

In otherwords I think that they matched the shape, size and available materials to best perform a specific task instead of trying to say, use the same arrowhead for all game, or the same tool for skinning and carving wood unless they had no choice.

"Andreas I think most of the carbon steel Scandia knives are forged. Many of them have a softer piece of steel forgedover a hard center section."

Lamination doesn't mean the blade shape and bevel came from forging does it? I'd think that the less expensive one are stamped or cut out a sheet of laminated steel and ground down. Like some folks will buy a damascus billet and grind a knife out of it via stock removal. Some of the laminated blades are as inexpensive as the non-laminated blades I have that were obviously stamped.
----------------------

Pan, Forged Puukkos
Dunno what you're after, but....
Here's what I know:

Kellam in US distributes several lines in all price ranges. Many are forged.
The Tommi lines are "progressiontempered"...=differential hardness??
Some blades offered also.
www.kellamknives.com
A couple examples:

Triple (!!!) from "KP Tommi line." If you have to ask how much you can't afford!!
(prices start at $300 for single knife)

Or a 12"-blade monster puuko:

3/4-tang "KP-Junior Line" also forged/"progressiontempered" about $150

"R Line" (Roselli) -- forged, offers "wootz" and UHC (ultra-high carbon) steels as well
Other sites offer Roselli knives as well. Maybe one in Germany. Here is his own site:
http://www.roselli.fi/
"wootz" hunter...400 euro (top):

but 73 euro in carbon, 111 euro in UHC.
He also makes kitchen knives and nice looking axes. Most everything is partial tang.
Gotta show the axe:

"AK line" (who??) heres a forged hunter/puukko double:

They also seem to import knives by Kullervo that look maybe forged, but that part of the site didn't work for me. I guess I should send for their catalog and drool on it.

----------

Brisa offers blades from many smiths and fabrication materials. Most blades are forged.
Many reasonably priced. On-site instructions. Some made-up knives as well.
http://www.brisa.fi
Here's a couple ...looks like 165 euro, not bad I think!

Baudin laminated blade for about 40 euro

---------
An apparently obsessive-compulsive person assembled this massive links page.
http://www.lnqs.com/knivelinks/
Look for sites of makers in appropriate countries. Some people assemble knives from blades made by others, some forge the blade and assemble the knife. (Makers in this country usually say that one must produce the blade themselves to be a "knifemaker") I recall looking at a few and some seemed surprisingly affordable for a handforged knife.

Here's a site that sells for several makers--most are pretty spendy, but they are "custom".
http://www.handmade-knives.com/index1.htm

I need more $$.

Spectre · Mar 6, 2003

JKM-1 might work nicely for hunters who want a lightweight skinner.

Pan Tau · Mar 6, 2003

Thank you Yvsa and firkin!
lots of sites to browse, lots of knives to admire -- to much money to save (and not enough time right now, have to write psychology exam tuesday

). I will surf nevertheless, I know myself...

bye, Andreas

Don Rac · Mar 6, 2003

If you plunk down $9 for a Mora, you'll have more money for khuk's...

Ooh another recommendation for this knife:

I read somewhere that if you take the bevel all the way up and make it a flat ground knife with a convex edge, it'll slice even better. Tried it for myself, and yes, it does get the job done in a heartbeat. I think it also helps if you love what you do and know what you're doing...

raghorn · Mar 6, 2003

Another Mora!

firkin · Mar 6, 2003

At about 1/4 inch thick, the one I have doesn't qualify as a lightweight except compared to a khuk, as far as I can tell.

With some work, espcially on the handle, it could work really well, I think. To me, the handle needs to be a tad longer.

firkin · Mar 6, 2003

"I read somewhere that if you take the bevel all the way up and make it a flat ground knife with a convex edge, it'llslice even better. Tried it for myself..."

Please, How'd you do this???

I want to try it on the Mora I use in the kitchen.

If I use a coarse stone and take off the "corner" where the existing bevel starts and just keep going until it gets to the spine, I think I should have a full flat bevel with a secondary bevel at the edge that I can turn into a convex edge.

Too ambitious a project without power tools?

Yvsa · Mar 8, 2003

Originally posted by Sylvrfalcn
Ragnar has the same magic with mail that Uncle Bill wields.

Yvsa, I'd be very interested in your impressions of the Leukko and it's suitability as a field knife. I know it's a well proven knife, but your opinion holds weight with me.

Sarge

Well here you go Sarge......
My first impression was, "Oh My Gawd I can't believe the size of this combo rig!!!!"
The rig is 13 1/4" sheathed!!!!
The Leukko is 12" oal with an almost 7 1/4" blade that's 1 5/16" wide at its widest part and is .115" or almost 1/8" thick and came razor sharp all the way down!!!!

The puukko is 8 1/4" oal with a 3 7/8" blade that's 3/4" wide at its widest part and is .117" again almost 1/8" thick and also is razor sharp all the way down.
The pic doesn't convey the rig's actual size very well at
all!!!!
It's interesting that the Leukko's edge is curved all the way down, perfect for skinning things like reindeer, even red nosed
ones.

The Puukko has very little flat to the edge so is also good for skinning although it's not as pronounced as the Leuko.
These knives are made to survive with as long as they're used as a knife should be and not as a pry bar.
I wouldn't be afraid to be stranded with these almost anywhere!!!!
I'm sure they will keep the edge they come with because of the past experience I've had with similar knives.
This set is by far superior to my other Scandia
Knives.
I'm very, very impressed with the whole rig!!!!!!!

The handles are unfinished curly birch with the Leuko having the most curl.
It is most beautiful!!!!
The Puukko has the curl on one side more than the other and to me the little bit of straight grain on the one side enhances the beauty of the curl above it.
Both knives come with a heavy German Silver(?) pommel and a nice flanged bolster of the same material.
Fit and finish is remarkable!!!!
These are a woodchuck's dream as there are no mistakes to sand off before you can start the finish work.
The handles are ready to be sanded down to whatever grit finish you prefer.
I admire the stained ones, but I think I will leave mine natural and see what the Tru-Oil brings out.
Need to add that the Leukko handle is man sized and fits very well in the hand.
The Puukko handle is ample sized and also fits the hand well. It can be gripped with the pinkie finger behind the pommel for more security if needed.
My bro Walosi really, really, does need one of these rigs, as does any woodchuck!!!!!!!

The sheath is extremely well constructed out of an excellent grade of leather and has nice embossed tooling that's not overwhelming.
The sheath belt loop is of a twisted leather lace about 3/8" wide and tied with a very secure knot.
There's none of that flimsy weak construction about it at all!!!!
I can see these becoming my favorite use rig already.
Paired up with a khuk you would have a dayumed near nigh perfect rig...
My only regret is that I didn't buy the rig a long, long time ago!!!!

Here's the pic in case anyone has forgotten what it looks like.

Hibuke · Mar 9, 2003

...not very many of us seem to be very HI-loyal here!

Are the small Khuks (12-15" Siru, 12" AK, Bilton, etc.) and their Kardas insufficient for hunting? What else would they be used for? I only herad one suggestion for the Penknife! Wouldn't that do the job?

Don Rac · Mar 9, 2003

Originally posted by firkin
Please, How'd you do this???

firkin,

I did it the dumb asian kid way, I vised it, and for the tip area held it down really hard, and used a Dremel. I was taking little bits and peices at a time and taking a very careful and slow time in doing it with water in a cup nearby. I still used the standard safety goggles and a paintball mask though, getting hot tiny chucks of steel embedded in my face is not on my list of things to do.

It was because the article was written by someone with a belt sander.

Sylvrfalcn · Mar 9, 2003

Great report Yvsa, I figured you'd like that rig, they're great knives. One thing Yvsa left out for you woodchucks' benefit is that in addition to it's beauty, curly birch has a very warm, soft, "user friendly", feel to it, that belies the fact that it wears like iron, as a couple of my old knives will attest. The blades seem thin to khuk users, but you have to remember that in all European, and European derived, cultures, the axe reigns supreme for chopping. Many of the knives carried during America's "frontier" period were butcher knives from Sheffield, England, and later from Russell's Green River works in this country. The heavier among those blades were 1/8" thick, many, if not most, were around 3/32". The fact that they were so common and widely used is significant, 'cause you gotta know the manufacturers could have made the blades thicker if that were the demand of the market.
These knives aren't made to chop, they're made to cut and cut extremely well.

Like khukuris, the knives of Northern Europe have considerable history and tradition behind them. The city of Trondheim in Norway, is more than 2,000 years old. The gentleman who founded the company that made Yvsa's knife combo was once official knifemaker for Tsar Nicholas of Russia. Many of the design features of the Scandinavian knives have remained virtually unchanged for more than a millineum, a testament to their sound "form follows function" approach. Yes sir, they're good knives, and I like 'em.

Now, having said that, Hibuke's got a valid point, HI knives should definitely not be overlooked by hunters. Pair up a JKM-1 with a Pen Knife, and you could handle anything from squirrels to moose. Take another look at the Kumar Karda. Now lay it alongside a Leukku, bingo, I noticed the resemblance straight away. Why do you think I ordered one for hog hunting? The 12" Siru and 12" AK wouldn't be the least bit out of place around a deer camp either.

Bottom line, carry what works for you, keep it sharp, and let the "experts" waste their time arguing the merits of the perfect hunting knife.

Sarge

Yvsa · Mar 9, 2003

Originally posted by Hibuke
...not very many of us seem to be very HI-loyal here!

I would say that anyone like myself that has bought over 35 khuks from H.I. is pretty loyal.

Bill has gotten probably 95% of my knife money over the last 4 years.

Are the small Khuks (12-15" Siru, 12" AK, Bilton, etc.) and their Kardas insufficient for hunting?

The small khuks are wonderful for hunting although their kardas are pretty small to be serious working knives. Now you get up to 18" khuks that changes into a different story.

Sarge, et al:
I noticed an something strange after really looking at the edge of the Leukko.
The edge is a flat sabre grind until it gets to the curve of the point where it becomes a true convex edge!!!!
After giving it some thought it makes good sense to have the edge ground this way.
On the other hand the Puukko's edge is flat sabre ground all the
way.
Assumeing the people try to stick the point of the Leukko between the vertebrae and giving it a sharp rap on the pommel to slaughter their reindeer the convex edge on the point gives the knife considerably more strength and resistance to chipping than an edge totally flat ground.
I'm curious now if this is a standard feature on the Leukko?