Question for LEO's- guns for Busse trades?

moonwilson

moonwilson

Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
7,250
What are the legal issues concerning trading firearms for knives on the forums? Is it legal to send a gun to somebody via UPS?

I'm asking this in the Busse forum, because I know there are some good cops that hang around here. I basically want to know if it's okay to offer to trade guns for knives. Can I get in trouble if a gun I trade away is subsequently stolen and used in a crime? Please excuse me if this is an inappropriate place for this question.

Thanks, guys!
 
moonwilson said:
What are the legal issues concerning trading firearms for knives on the forums? Is it legal to send a gun to somebody via UPS?

I'm asking this in the Busse forum, because I know there are some good cops that hang around here. I basically want to know if it's okay to offer to trade guns for knives. Can I get in trouble if a gun I trade away is subsequently stolen and used in a crime? Please excuse me if this is an inappropriate place for this question.

Thanks, guys!
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I'm sure UPS has its own regulations regarding what it will and won't ship. I'm not familiar with those rules.

If a gun crosses state lines, however, it MUST be shipped to a Federal Firearms License (FFL) holder. Before you ship, that FFL holder should produce proof that he/she has such a license. Moreover, the firearm has to be legal in the area to which it is shipped.

Many FFL holders will take receipt of a firearm and process the state paperwork on his/her end for a fee. Then (and only then), your intended recipient can take possession of the firearm from the FFL holder.

You can find a list of such Transfer Dealers in any given area here: http://www.gunbroker.com/User/DealerNetwork.asp
 
I am no LEO, but I can tell you that you have to ship to an FFL if the trade is interstate. Many have traded firearms for knives in the past. If the trade goes through an FFL, there is paperwork to show you transfered possession and if a firearms is subsequently used in a crime, you ought to be covered since you can prove you didn't own it and transfered it legally. If you ship a firearm to an individual and it crossed the state line, I think you would be guilty of interstate firearms trafficking. A call to your local ATF would be the best way to confirm what they deem acceptable, around my stomping grounds most local LEO's don't know the intricate nuances of federal firearms laws.

Looks like I took too long to answer. Guyon beat me to it.
 
What Guyon said. Going dealer to dealer is the route you want to go. :thumbup:

(edited to add: What Progunnder said also. Interstate has to go FFL to FFL)
 
MD13 said:
What Guyon said. Going dealer to dealer is the route you want to go. :thumbup:

(edited to add: What Progunnder said also. Interstate has to go FFL to FFL)
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I don't think you have to hold a FFL to ship. I believe any individual can do so.

Edited to add: According to Mike's post below, some states require that a dealer (FFL holder) do the shipping.

But you *HAVE TO* ship to an FFL holder if the firearm crosses state lines.

Someone may correct me on this one, but I think this is right. People sell guns on gunbroker.com all the time, but when they sell out of state, they have to ship to a FFL holder.

This brings up a question. If you sell in-state, are you fine as long as the shipping company will ship your firearm? No paperwork?

Here's some Busse content with a firearm thrown in...

Hike2.jpg
 
Thanks, guys! Helpful as always. I would need to ship from a FFL here to a FFL holder wherever the gun was going to? So basically, gunshop/range here to gunshop/range there? Sounds simple enough.

*edit* So I could ship directly to a FFL holder? That would be even better. Then do I just ask the dealer for a transfer receipt?
 
Guyon, I'm almost 100% sure you're right. The receiver has to hold an FFL. The only couple deals I've done, I've had my local dealer ship for me. :thumbup:
 
1. If the trade is confined to the borders of your state, and a minor is not involved, you can trade without involvement of a FFL holder. (No federal violations. I don't know about your state law. You would have to check that. In Alabama it would be perfectly ok.)

2. If it is an interstate transaction, you must ship the firearm to a FFL holder in the other state. (It is my understanding that some states require shipping to be done by a FFL, as well.) Many gun shops will perform this service for a small fee. There are some who will do it at no charge if you are a good customer of theirs.

3. Although not legally required (unless your state says otherwise), I would keep good records of the transaction
(E-mails, shipping receipts, etc.)

4. I personally would not trade a firearm to anyone that I had even the slightest doubt about. Certainly not a felon or someone who asked me to do anything that caused me to be uneasy about them.


I am no legal expert, just a long-time gun nut, and the above is my understanding of federal law. You need to research your state law before you do anything.
 
MikeH said:
(It is my understanding that some states require shipping to be done by a FFL, as well.) Many gun shops will perform this service for a small fee. There are some who will do it at no charge if you are a good customer of theirs.
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Thanks, Mike. I did not know some states require that a dealer (FFL holder) do the shipping. :thumbup:
 
MikeH said:
1. If the trade is confined to the borders of your state, and a minor is not involved, you can trade without involvement of a FFL holder. (No federal violations. I don't know about your state law. You would have to check that. In Alabama it would be perfectly ok.)

2. If it is an interstate transaction, you must ship the firearm to a FFL holder in the other state. (It is my understanding that some states require shipping to be done by a FFL, as well.) Many gun shops will perform this service for a small fee. There are some who will do it at no charge if you are a good customer of theirs.

3. Although not legally required (unless your state says otherwise), I would keep good records of the transaction
(E-mails, shipping receipts, etc.)

4. I personally would not trade a firearm to anyone that I had even the slightest doubt about. Certainly not a felon or someone who asked me to do anything that caused me to be uneasy about them.


I am no legal expert, just a long-time gun nut, and the above is my understanding of federal law. You need to research your state law before you do anything.
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That's a big 10-4 on #4 above. That's one thing I'm a bit concerned about. The last thing I'd want to do is put a gun in the hands of some scumbag. I'm just looking through my safe, trying to figure out a way to finagle my next INFI fix.

Thanks again, guys. Great advice and links, and so quick! :)
 
moonwilson said:
Thanks, guys! Helpful as always. I would need to ship from a FFL here to a FFL holder wherever the gun was going to? So basically, gunshop/range here to gunshop/range there? Sounds simple enough.

*edit* So I could ship directly to a FFL holder? That would be even better. Then do I just ask the dealer for a transfer receipt?
Click to expand...

I know that in some cases you can ship directly to the FFL holder, and in some cases guns can be shipped directly to you. For instance, you can ship to a gunsmith for custom work without a FFL on your end. I personally have shipped guns to manufacturers for warranty work and they have shipped directly back to me. However, when they have replaced defective guns, the replacement has to come back to a FFL holder in my state, and the paperwork done just as if I had purchased a new gun.

Keep in mind that your state may have laws that trump anything I or anyone else might say here.
 
Guyon said:
You've got it BAAAAADDD. :p
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Ain't that the truth. When they say: "champagne taste and a beer budget"- they're talking about me.

My wife is pregnant- I'm trying to think of a way to convince her to name the kid "Busse" if it's a boy. That's how bad I have it. I dreamt about Blade '08 last night. It was awesome, I scored a couple of sweet CGASH-1's, and then I woke up.

However, I have a show going up next week. If things go well, I'll have some decent money to blow on INFI before too long. Wish me luck!
 
I recently made a trade of some knives for a handgun and used an FFL dealer on both ends, transaction went fine. You need to check with the receiving FFL dealer though, some won't accept from private individuals, only from other FFL dealers.
 
It seems to me that a question of this importance, given the jurisdictional boundries, needs to be answered by your local authorities. I would also make darn sure who was receiving the item. Also what their laws are. This question is too arbitrary for me to render an opinion and I am a LEO for 17 years. State lines change everything! I am certain of one thing....you don't want to be caught up in a FFL issue. JMHO, be certain Bro!
 
Here are a few tips as I do alot of gun deals.

Handguns must be sent via Next Day Air... UPS is the best route
It is against the law to send any firearm via the USPS
You must only ship to a FFL dealer and they must send you a copy of their FFL signed in red ink... I think fax's are ok now

Remember those 3 things and you should be good. Be aware that some commie states may have more restrictive laws.
 
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