Question for the Kitchen knife folks and chefs

i4Marc said:
Great feedback. Thank you. I saw 52100 mentioned and was going to be on my short list with W2. What are your top steel recommendations and HRC targets for this application? I'm not going with stainless this time so carbon steel choices would be appreciated.
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I was a chef for 11 years and in that time a lot of people came through the kitchen. I was the only one using a non-stainless knife (an 8" santoku that I made). Maybe the recipient of these knives will be cool with it, but my experience is that most chefs are not.
 
jdm61 said:
and also less likely to blow up in a fast quench oil like Parks #50.
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One thing that makes me love working with 15n20 is that it has double the working time of a 1095. You still do all the same stuff, get it right from the furnace to the oil, but with a nominal 2-second "nose" rather than 1095's one second, it's a lot less worrisome. Oh, and it's actually made to quench in fast oil.
It gets really really hard, with proper soaking and temp control, and is designed for toughness in thin sections.
Lets see....what's a really thin section that you'd want to be tough....Maybe a knife edge? :)
What it would take for chefs to say "Oh, that 15n20 is the GOOD STUFF" rather than "huh?", I don't know.
 
The 1 to 2 second "nose" represents the time to get it from say lowest austenizing temp to say below 900F, not how long you have to get it to the quench tank. According to guys like Ray Kirk, really thin 15N20 will actually air/plate harden, but on the other hand, like you said, it can be quenched in fast quenching oil without shattering like some REALLY deep hardening steels in thin sections like Cru Forge V (been there)
elementfe said:
One thing that makes me love working with 15n20 is that it has double the working time of a 1095. You still do all the same stuff, get it right from the furnace to the oil, but with a nominal 2-second "nose" rather than 1095's one second, it's a lot less worrisome. Oh, and it's actually made to quench in fast oil.
It gets really really hard, with proper soaking and temp control, and is designed for toughness in thin sections.
Lets see....what's a really thin section that you'd want to be tough....Maybe a knife edge? :)
What it would take for chefs to say "Oh, that 15n20 is the GOOD STUFF" rather than "huh?", I don't know.
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Sorry to drag up this thread again but I was out of town for a couple of weeks. I was kind of set on making carbon steel knives but RobN has given me some concern. Can I get some additional opinions regarding whether or not stainless is the way to go? If stainless is the consensus then what are the suggested varieties besides AEB-L? Ideally I'd like to do the HT but if it's too exotic I'll have to send it out.
 
Even in my limited experience I have found that there are customers who definitely have a preference for one or the other. For those that want carbon steel I'm going with 52100. For those that want stainless they can go with AEB-L or CPM S35-VN for an additional charge. For those that don't know or care what type of steel I'm going with AEB-L.
 
The problem is that if you choose the SS route you will need at least dry ice.
AEB-L and 14c28n are not "exotic" and are probably the best kitchen knife SS available, but you need to complete the martensite transformation, or the RA will impair the steel performance.
 
Since it's for a specific person, get a look at what they use now.

Is he a pastry chef, a Sushi chef, or working a southern BBq, where he's breaking down ribs all day.

Totally different based on use, function and preferences.
 
I have worked with AEB-L before and did the HT at home. Customer seemed very happy with it. But it has around .67 Carbon. Has anyone used AEB-H? It has around 1% Carbon.
 
The reason AEB-L is hypo-eutectoid is that will make no carbides from the chromium. Virtually every last atom of carbon gets tied up in the iron, making the chromium merely provide stainless qualities. Thus you will get a very fine grain edge, and stain resistance. I like to call it stainless 1070. The advantage of the extra .30 points of carbon in AEB-L would not really be much of a gain in a knife, as Rc 61-62 is all you really want in a kitchen knife....which regular AEB-L does just fine. The extra carbon would make some chromium carbides, which would increase the toughness and wear resistance very slightly. Not enough to really be an advantage in a kitchen knife which is re-sharpened regularly.
 
Ok. fair enough. I spoke with the customer today. She will not be the recipient of the knives. She is gifting them to her friend. We settled on 3 knives. A chef, a paring knife and a rough use knife like a cleaver or perhaps a chef style knife with a more robust geometry for chopping, breaking up joints and ribs etc. For the heavy use knife, what would be the way to go? A dedicated cleaver or a more versatile design like a chef but with a thicker edge angle?
 
I would go for a slightly thicker angle...not much; just a slight variation makes for a great improving in edge stability.
 
Most cleavers are built with a lot of weight forward, and a fairly short blade for control. In effect, a little bit more like a hatchet than a chef's knife, though that's an exaggeration.
That said, the trend in chefs knives is toward fairly fragile, extremely thin edges- my chicken chopper has a 6 inch broad blade with a sturdy convex grind, in 52100, (sort of like Kramer's 6" chef) and I haven't used the cleaver in the drawer for years, so Stezann may be right for most home kitchens- just make a sturdier grind on another chef.
 
That sounds like a plan.

Should the tangs on a full tang kitchen knife (or any other knife for that matter) be softer or more flexible than the blade itself? A lot of blades are differentially hardened which obviously leaves the tang soft or springy. But some steels including stainless blades are hardened from end to end. What are the strategies or risks involved with leaving them soft or getting them hard? I ask because I'd like the butt end of at least one of the handles to be hard. If I use AEB-L I think my choice is made for me. It will be hard end to end. But if I use something like 52100 or W2 I can choose either, correct?
 
For me, it's much simpler to harden the whole thing, saves at least one step, sometimes many- wrap it up, harden it, temper the whole thing...unless you want a hamon, then use W2 and do what cha gotta do.
In a kitchen knife, all the stress that matters is happening at the cutting edge.
Unless you're prying a drawer open with it, in which case you should be banned from the kitchen.
 
Hahaha. No, not prying drawers. Our friend Aldo told me a lot of chefs use the tips of their good knives to pop air holes in cans to help extract the goodies inside. My idea was to design a "can popper" into the butt end of one of the knives for that purpose rather than abusing the tip.
 
I wonder if they open the cans with their knives...then why couldn't they pop air holes with the can opener???
Some chefs deserves cheap knives ;)
 
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