question for you guys in nothern climes

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Sep 3, 2008
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im in vermont and have a couple of questions for you other guys uphere in the cold 1) what do you use to keep you water from freezeing when your grinding or do you just dump it every day 2 ) how do you keep you r blades from cooling during heat treat from the heat source (forge oven etc ) to the quench mines only about a foot away and if its realy cold out then i still lose a lot of heat expecial on realy cold day s thanks chris :)
 
Hi Chris.
I live in Canada out near the west coast not far from the USA border. I only do stock removal so I have a totally enclosed shop with heating by way of a 220V heater. I used the same set up when I lived in a more northern climate where it could get down to -30 farenheit often during the cold times of winter. For me a most comfortable shop temperature wise to work in is a necessity . Frank
 
This is a good time to discuss the regularly expressed idea of putting the quench tank as close to the forge as possible to trying to dunk the blade in one mad swing.

The drop in temperature needed for 1095 to convert to martensite is from 1475F to below 1000F in slightly less than one second. Now, that one second doesn't start the instant the steel leaves the forge. It starts at the point where the steel drops in temperature below 1350F. Until this point the steel is happily austenite. You have more than enough time to smoothly plunge the blade into the quenchant. The steel will not drop below critical for a couple seconds most likely, until it hits the quenchant.Fully soaked steel at 1475F doesn't cool down all that much faster when the ambient temp is 10F than when it is 80F. A breeze, however will cool it much quicker. Putting up a wind break is a good idea if the wind blows through your forge.

Now, from a safety point of view, the quench tank directly under the forge door is an accident waiting to happen. Either the cloud of vaporized and atomized oil will burst into flame in your face, or you may burn yourself with the dragons breath coming from the forge, which will be too close. You need all your attention on the quench, not on what part of you is on fire.
The tank should be about 3-4 feet away, and downwind.
 
I worked for 10 years in a non-heated shop here in central Montana...its tough when it gets cold. 1-2 hours to warm the tools and anvil, anti-freeze in the slack tub, and lots of time with the forge burning just to get things warm enough to use. Quenching in cold weather (-10 to -30) presents some unique problems too. Others have already discussed the hazards of having the quench tank too close to the forge, but only you can decide exactly what that is. There are no magic solutions, except to build yourself a temp controlled shop.
For the past 7 years I have enjoyed a shop that has radiant hot water heat in the floor, which keeps the shop at a constant 55F (or whatever I set the thermostat on) unless our temps drop to less than -25F....then it doesn't keep up very well. For those times I have an auxiliary overhead heater.

When the temps drop way down there (-20 or below) and your shop isn't heated, its just miserable trying to get everything just warm enough to use......much less being able to do anything accurately. My only solution was to let the forges run for about an hour or so before I started working, and run one of those "bullet" propane heaters while I was in the shop. It ate a lot of propane, but that was my cost for forging/Knifemking in cold weather.
 
Spike your quench tank heavily with auto window washer fluid, it doesn't freeze. Just keep the shop dog away from it , most contain methanol, so don't you go drinking it either. Also keep it away from the forge.
(I keep mine a bit off to the side so sparks from grinding don't get in there either.)
Thanks,
Del
 
:) 30 to 40 below here often. That's C degrees - but 40 below is the same on both scales.

I agree with Stacy that the blade doesn't see much difference between air that is 1490 degrees cooler and air that is 1440 degrees cooler. A breeze can make a difference in warping, so I'm sure (nope - too strong.... I believe...) it can also affect temperature to quench. As for grinding, I do that in the basement - heated.

Are you getting some results from your heat treatment that lead you to believe you are having problems?

Rob!
 
had trouble with a small thin blade the other day when it was really cold by the . I it got from the froge to the quench tank it would be black al ready
 
had trouble with a small thin blade the other day when it was really cold by the . I it got from the froge to the quench tank it would be black al ready

Well, If it goes from critical to black in time to get under the nose for that particular steel, then it's quenched! (doesn't matter if it made it into the actual 'quench' or not).
 
Unlimited solar power on these cold days but it takes an hour or so to wam up the shop. Time for a third cup of coffee and a post.
The walls are double 6mm plastic, good for light and helps heat up the space with sunlight. When there is no sun I burn wood.
Shop_at_-39.jpg


It was -39 when we got up this morning.
We are very lucky to live here. I can't think of a better place.
No phone and no grid.

It is hard work. Getting dressed up to travel the 200 feet to the out house.
We're snowed in right now. Our 1 1/2 km road has deep snow drifts. I need to weld up the tractor plow before it moves. To cold to be welding.


Scott

http://aki-and-scott-fireweed.blogspot.com/
http://www.caribooblades.com
 
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