Question for you veteran umnumzaan users? (Updated) pg3

F

frontline29

Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
2,538
I've had my umnumzaan for a little over a year now and have carried it everyday problem free.

Over this time I've noticed that the ceramic ball spins around in the lock bar.
Its in there tight, but i can spin the ball around with my finger.
I am thinking this might be normal and adds to the smoothness of the knife and creates a tighter wedge for lock up.
So instead if the ball gliding along the blade it rolls?

Once I noticed that the ball spins, I started to work a dab of lube into the ball to make it roll along the blade easier. Doing this really made the knife smooth.

So my question is,
Is the ceramic ball suppose to spin?
Is it designed that way to make the knife smoother? And to wedge an even tighter lock up?

If your gonna check to see if yours moves, I had to look very closely in order to see it spin

Not concerned. Just wondering if it was designed that way.

Edited to add: I'm also gonna shoot an email off to CRK as well. Just to get 100% conformation on this. Just wanted to hear what you guys thought in the mean time.
 
Last edited:
Seems like it's intended to spin or move freely against the pressures of the blade and lock interface. I'm not certain though, and I too have asked this question. When CRK responds, just paste that reply in here ;)
 
Are you really sure the ball is actually moving and it's not an illusion of sorts ? The ceramic is finished to a high micron finish so will feel so smooth to the touch that it could feel like it's rotating when it is infact not. The ball is peaned into the lock bar and that is used for static items, not a bearing, joint or other item that is expected to move. I really don't think it's moving as it's not intended to rotate in its housing and if it did have enough room to move you would also have play in other directions.
 
Im thinking what Haze said might be accurate. Please post what crk says.
 
I would not be surprised if the ball rotated - considering that the peening might not hold the slick ball in a static configuration - but don't see how that would adversely affect anything.
 
It is simple enough to check. Just mark the ball with a pen or something and see if you can move it. I'm willing to bet it doesn't move. :)
 
Sonnydaze said:
I've read one post, somewhere, perhaps relating to the Zaan, that the ceramic ball is designed to rotate freely in order to distribute wear and keep lockup tight. I'm the first to say that I don't know what knife that post was talking about. It might have been a Spyderco Phoenix...
Sonny
Click to expand...

The phoenix or Dodo etc. have what is, perhaps rather amusingly, called a "ball lock". That ball can indeed rotate but it is housed in a fashion that allows that to happen. That is also a very different lock and set up than that of the Umnumzaan. The ceramic detent on the Umnumzaan does not move nore does any other press fitted detent on any other knife. The ceramic its self is just never going to wear out so trying to make that ball move to reduce wear is just hilarious. You show me a worn in flat spot on the ceramic ball of any Umnumzaan and I'll eat my hat with out salt or pepper. The thumb studs press fitted into the blade should rotate in their housing just as easily by some peoples understanding of what is going on here. :confused:
 
Haze said:
The ceramic its self is just never going to wear out so trying to make that ball move to reduce wear is just hilarious.
Click to expand...

Haze, I located the reference to my post. It was the Phoenix...and from the Spyderco factory site.

"The ball bearing used in the lock sits on two springs that push it forward above the blade's tang and locking the blade open. High-tech yet simple, the round bearing rotates, rolling in its housing never wearing at exactly the same spot. It self adjusts as the knife is repeatedly opened and closed, minimizing wear and tear. "

Spyderco was referring to a steel ball bearing, and not a ceramic ball. My Manix2 also employed a steel ball bearing, although many owners, myself included, replaced it with a ceramic bearing.
 
Yea, it's a cool lock. I have a Dodo or two, with a replaced ceramic ball as well. :)

Sonnydaze said:
Haze, I located the reference to my post. It was the Phoenix...and from the Spyderco factory site.

"The ball bearing used in the lock sits on two springs that push it forward above the blade's tang and locking the blade open. High-tech yet simple, the round bearing rotates, rolling in its housing never wearing at exactly the same spot. It self adjusts as the knife is repeatedly opened and closed, minimizing wear and tear. "

Spyderco was referring to a steel ball bearing, and not a ceramic ball. My Manix2 also employed a steel ball bearing, although many owners, myself included, replaced it with a ceramic bearing.
Click to expand...
 
Haze said:
Are you really sure the ball is actually moving and it's not an illusion of sorts ? The ceramic is finished to a high micron finish so will feel so smooth to the touch that it could feel like it's rotating when it is infact not. The ball is peaned into the lock bar and that is used for static items, not a bearing, joint or other item that is expected to move. I really don't think it's moving as it's not intended to rotate in its housing and if it did have enough room to move you would also have play in other directions.
Click to expand...

I've known that the ball in my Zaan could spin for probably eight months now. Every time I've taken it down for a cleaning I've checked to see if it spins. It has. So it's not like I've checked once or twice and my eyes are fooling me.
I'm 100% sure it's moving. I have to look very closely to see it moving while spinning it but I can clearly see it moving.

It doesnt spin round loosely like a bearing in grease would. It's not sloppy by any weans.
The ball is crimped tight. Tight enough that it stays tightly in place and can only spin with moderate pressure from my finger.

It's probably not designed to move as it is crimped in the lock bar like you say. But it is a ball after all. And if the crimping was not applied tight enough the ball would spin right?

I'm not concerned at all. Just curious.


Don't worry Sonny. You'll get there one day. :D
 
powernoodle said:
I would not be surprised if the ball rotated - considering that the peening might not hold the slick ball in a static configuration - but don't see how that would adversely affect anything.
Click to expand...

Personally I think this is what's going on.
It's most likely not designed to spin as it is peened into the lock bar. So I'll have to agree with you on that one Haze.

But if its not peened down tight enough that would result in the ball slightly spinning right?
There's another guy on YouTube that says his spins as well. So maybe some spin and some don't due to how much pressure is used while peening?

Whatever the case, its not a big deal to me as it doesn't appear to affect the function of the knife.

But I'll post the answer I get from CRK.

Hopefully they don't ask me to send it in, because I don't feel that there is anything truly wrong with the knife other then the ball slightly spins.

Edited to add: Just got an email from heather and wanted to let you guys know that we won't be getting conformation on this until next week sometime.
 
Last edited:
Haze said:
The thumb studs press fitted into the blade should rotate in their housing just as easily by some peoples understanding of what is going on here. :confused:
Click to expand...

Wait. Is the thumb-stud not supposed to spin? Mine definitely spins... My detent ball doesn't though.
 
I have 4 Umnumzaans at the moment one of which has been carried for a long time. None of those have a ceramic ball that moves at all. The bit in bold in your post is just not really possible, it can't spin if it sits tight in the housing, even a ball that just loosly sat on the lock bar would slide over the blade and not spin, the ball just can't spin.

Can you provide pictures with a line drawn on the ball that showns the travel ? Draw a line take a picture and then move the ball to a position you can't have drawn the line on for a second picture.

frontline29 said:
I've known that the ball in my Zaan could spin for probably eight months now. Every time I've taken it down for a cleaning I've checked to see if it spins. It has. So it's not like I've checked once or twice and my eyes are fooling me.
I'm 100% sure it's moving. I have to look very closely to see it moving while spinning it but I can clearly see it moving.

It doesnt spin round loosely like a bearing in grease would. It's not sloppy by any weans.
The ball is crimped tight. Tight enough that it stays tightly in place and can only spin with moderate pressure from my finger.

It's probably not designed to move as it is crimped in the lock bar like you say. But it is a ball after all. And if the crimping was not applied tight enough the ball would spin right?

I'm not concerned at all. Just curious.


Don't worry Sonny. You'll get there one day. :D
Click to expand...
 
Haze said:
I have 4 Umnumzaans at the moment one of which has been carried for a long time. None of those have a ceramic ball that moves at all. The bit in bold in your post is just not really possible, it can't spin if it sits tight in the housing, even a ball that just loosly sat on the lock bar would slide over the blade and not spin, the ball just can't spin.

Can you provide pictures with a line drawn on the ball that showns the travel ? Draw a line take a picture and then move the ball to a position you can't have drawn the line on for a second picture.
Click to expand...

I was just about to send you a PM. So I'll just copy and paste.

I'd definitely take you up on that bet that the ball spins on my particular Zann.
But I wouldn't know how to prove it to you without being in person, as my camera wouldn't pick it up because its such a small area. But I'll try to get a video of it after the wife goes to bed.


I know exactly what your saying. Because its peened into the lock bar it's not designed to spin.
However mine does for some reason. Maybe mine wasn't peened down hard enough? Which would still hold it in place but let it spin slightly?

I'm not making this up to create a problem or to bash CRK. CRK is my favourite manufacturer.
I wouldn't even call it a defect because it doesn't affect anything that I can see.
 
I'm interested in not having to eat my hat but a bet is a bet. :p

If you draw a line on the ball with red pen and then move it so the line is under the peaned area where you could not have drawn the mark, that would prove the ball moves.
 
Haze said:
I'm interested in not having to eat my hat but a bet is a bet. :p

If you draw a line on the ball with red pen and then move it so the line is under the peaned area where you could not have drawn the mark, that would prove the ball moves.
Click to expand...


I've proved it to myself. :D
I just did it with a black marker but the camera wouldn't pick it up. I'm gonna try to find something lighter to mark with so it'll hopefully pick it up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top