Question for you veteran umnumzaan users? (Updated) pg3

You will have to upload it to youtube or similar to post it here, pics can be posted from any photo account or uploaded through BFC if you have a payed membership.
 
okay,
so I finally managed to get the camera to pick up the moment by placing a dab of white out on the ball and getting it to move around with my finger.
The ceramic ball is highly polished so its rather hard to to get it moving with my finger.

Although uploading through You Tube killed the quality, you should still be able to see the moment of the ball by watching the dab of white out spin around.

You might have to full screen it.

Here's the video,

[video=youtube;w66YD5khVXU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w66YD5khVXU[/video]
 
I hear Malbec or Chianti goes pretty well with hat Haze, do we get a video of that too?:p
 
RiverRat84 said:
I hear Malbec or Chianti goes pretty well with hat Haze, do we get a video of that too?:p
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Actually, I had to see a flat spot on the ceramic ball for that ;), but that ball clearly moves. I can't get the ball to move on my oldest and most carried Umnumzaan or one that has seen virtually no use at all so I really don't know what to think.

Edit:

Perhaps I do know what to think now I have thought about it. If that knife has been spine whacked that could unseat the ball. I remember CRK mentioning a knife that had been beaten rather badly and that had loosened the ball. Of course it could be that the peening just didn't grip the ball from the start but this would be the first time I have seen it. What did CRK say when you spoke to them ?
 
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Haze said:
Actually, I had to see a flat spot on the ceramic ball for that ;), but that ball clearly moves. I can't get the ball to move on my oldest and most carried Umnumzaan or one that has seen virtually no use at all so I really don't know what to think.

Edit:

Perhaps I do know what to think now I have thought about it. If that knife has been spine whacked that could unseat the ball. I remember CRK mentioning a knife that had been beaten rather badly and that had loosened the ball. Of course it could be that the peening just didn't grip the ball from the start but this would be the first time I have seen it. What did CRK say when you spoke to them ?
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LOL,
I knew I'd never get off that easy.


My friend,
I can think of better things to do with a 400$ folder then spine whacking it.
I'm definitely not one of those guys that you see on YouTube that has money to burn and folders to abuse.

If I ever feel the need to abuse a knife it'll be an 80$ Becker BK2.

I buy one High end knife a year. And I choose to spend my money with CRK.
Trust me, I treat them with due respect.

I've been around here for 4 years now. Check my feedback. I have no reason to lie.

If CRK wants me to send it in, I have no problem doing so. I'll even ask them to verify that the knife hasn't been abused as I take my reputation on this forum seriously. A man is only as good as his word as far as I'm concerned.

Edit to add: I think the peening didn't grip the ball fully in the first place to be honest. CRK is only human right. No need to give me such a hard time brother. ;)
 
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I'm not throwing accusations at you, I'm just having a conversation with you. :) If you bought the knife new and say you didn't abuse it then I of course believe you. I'm just mulling reasons it could happen, I'm not saying what has happened.
 
Haze said:
I'm not throwing accusations at you, I'm just having a conversation with you. :) If you bought the knife new and say you didn't abuse it then I of course believe you. I'm just mulling reasons it could happen, I'm not saying what has happened.
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Sorry man. It's late and I've had a few.
I just know how people end up blaming the user before considering anything else.
And when you get the fly by night, joined last month, 60 Post count, type guys then no doubt. You should be weary.
I agree with you that spine whacking could probably loosen the ball on an umnumzaan. Its a factor to consider while on the subject. And I shouldn't have gotten as heated as I did. I apologize. Sorry if I came off as overly defensive.
 
I am completely with the Frontline on this one. I'm glad he already proved it for himself, because now I don't have to go into a detailed, passionate schpeel about how I KNOW the ball on mine moves (and yes, I enjoy lubing my ball sometimes as well) :) I'm actually in a little debate about this with some guys on YouTube and I will be referencing this thread to them. If mine was static, I'd have trouble understanding how the ball since completely tight (with no noticeable or visible play/slow inside the pocket) in the pocket and can rotate.

So, okay, the ball may not be intended to spin, but I do think given the materials, it's almost inevitable that it will start to spin eventually and I don't think it's at all a problem. In fact, exactly as Frontline said, I thought of it as a good thing because it makes opening smooth and allows the lock bar to wedge itself in harder for tighter lockup (possibly). I have a couple of ideas about how and why it happens. For starters, I do think that they gut put in their pocket and the outside corners are then hammered in around the ball to keep it in place and generally the ball will be stuck in place from the factory, and may never end up moving (or may be slightly loose from the start...doesn't matter as long as it remains solidly in the pocket). So yes, the ball may not be intended to move as part of the design since it doesn't need to considering how slick ceramic is. However, I think there are a couple of things that make it likely to come loose and start to spin and I don't think that's necessarily NOT part of the design.

For one thing, I think it might be more common on Zaan's with the lock bar overtravel disk because the tolerances are so tight with that disk that the disk itself actually puts a little bit of pressure on the lock bar and make to ball tighter against the blade as it opens that it would be just from the lock bars own spring tension. So that extra pressure creates a little more friction on the ball as well as pressing the ball a little tighter into the pocket (which could slightly impress the ball deeper into the Ti pocket) and breaking that snugness of the hammered-in tabs and resulting in the ball moving freely a tiny bit (by the way, before I had ever even taken my Zaan apart I always knew the ball rolled because you can really feel it in the way the overtravel disk puts a bit of pressure on the lock bar and makes that ball tight between the lock bar and the blade and you can sort of feel it roll).

Also, the other way I think it might happen is from the ball getting wedged between the inside of the lock bar and the blade tang when it locks up. This shock of the blade snapping open seems enough to break the ball a little bit free to me, but ever more is the fact that the ball gets wedged so tight probably means that it pushes just the tiniest bit deeper into the Ti and that also makes just enough room for it to spin (still, I guarantee you that theres no enough slop in the pocket to actually tell that it's not perfectly tight inside. When you spin it with your finger, you can kind of hear a scraping sound very quietly from the ball rubbing against the inside of the Ti pocket).

The ball is tightly pressed into the pocket with this outer tabs hammered down around it, but still, they're two hard materials (the ceramic being EXTREMELY hard) and the ball is perfectly round, so there's really nothing stopping it from eventually breaking free on the inside of the pocket. If it was slightly odd shaped it would be a different story, but since it's perfectly round and slick and the Ti is softer, it seems inevitable to me that eventually it will break free of the "grip" of the Ti, since the Ti really can't get much of a grip on it in the first place (it can only just keep it inside that pocket firmly all the way around it). The tightness of the pocket and the little hammered down tabs really isn't enough. But yeah, it's not like there's any adhesive in there. It's pretty hard for a hard/porous material to get a good grip on a harder, non-porous, perfectly round surface, and that grip probably isn't going to last forever when that ball isn't taking constant pressure, friction, and (especially) the shock of the blade snapping open. :)
 
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Not at all, old chap. I have seen something new today so I'll thank you for that. It's still a little perplexing to me but that's life. :):thumbup:
 
Haze said:
Me ? Nope, I have pretty much zero online presence out side of BFC.
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I don't blame ya. Too much garbage. ;)

Sorry I meant A.dragg.
He must have been the other guy on YouTube I was talking to who's zann does the same thing.

Edited to add: I think I'll carry the Zann today. :)
 
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I've got one in my pocket right now. I'm some what hesitant to start asking my friends with Umnumzaans to check their balls though, so this quandry may remain. :eek:... :D:thumbup:
 
My Zaan's ball has spun for as long as I can remember. I was under the impression that it was part of the design. Though if some balls spin and some don't that might explain some differences in smoothness that people report.
 
DrFish said:
My Zaan's ball has spun for as long as I can remember. I was under the impression that it was part of the design. Though if some balls spin and some don't that might explain some differences in smoothness that people report.
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Mine is super smooth and doesn't spin. DOB is 2008.
 
Haze said:
I've got one in my pocket right now. I'm some what hesitant to start asking my friends with Umnumzaans to check their balls though, so this quandry may remain. :eek:... :D:thumbup:
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haha :D No doubt.
It would be rather weird if everyone started playing with their balls. lol
 
Staking is usually a pretty imprecise process. I can imagine that some of these balls are staked in tightly enough that they don't move, and that others have enough room to rotate. In fact, other than the fact that you'd probably lose it every time you disassembled the knife, there's no reason for this ball detent to be staked at all in normal use - it's captive between the lockbar and the tang.

Enjoying some Bokers right now, but sans chapeau. :wink:
 
Hey frontline...thanks for that video bro..very surprising.

Just checked a "ball" on my original umnum under a loop, and while "hairy" from lint, it doesnt move. Guess I have to play with it some more:p

Ill check my other "balls" on my other umnums later.
 
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