Question: Knife position, Dominant Hand or Off Hand?

R

Ronin Ichi

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Mar 15, 2002
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Question: When initially squaring off in a self-defence situation (knife versus Knife), should the knife be held in the dominant hand or in the off hand ? [ Note: My training has been chiefly empty hand, Karate-Do, Jujutsu. ]

*Holding the knife in the dominant hand (forward position and in a reverse grip) would allow relatively more effective trapping and slashing.

*Holding the knife in the non-dominant hand (and in the reverse position with dominate hand empty and forward) would allow the dominant hand to be relatively more effective as a guard, as well keeping the blade position better hidden.

Gentlemen, your opinions please.
 
Being the only left-handed member in our group (Filipino Combat Systems/Sayoc Kali, with Guro Ray Dionaldo), I do most of my training during classes with knife in weak hand; that's the only way I can go through knife tapping and other two-man drills with my right-handed fellow practitioners. I welcome this as a challenge and a chance to become (somewhat) ambidextrous. When practising carrenza (solo training, akin to shadow boxing) and manipulation drills, I try to devote roughly the same time to both hands.

Still, in a real-life situation, I'd certainly revert to my dominant hand if I had a choice. There'd be too much at stake in this case to deliberately rely on my less able hand, IMO.

Leo
 
Thanks Leo. One of the reasons that I am curious about this is that I am also a Lefty and most folding tactical knives are set up for right hand pocket clip carry. My favorite knife the Elishewitz/Benchmade Styker currently only comes in the right handed verson, as Benchmage discontinued the left-handed model. I know other southpaws that carry and present the blade in/from front right pocket clip, leaving the dominant hand as a guard. Of course swiching hands and stance (forward to reverse) aids in confusing BG. Thanks again for your feed back.
 
I remember a picture of Rex Applegate holding the knife in the rearward dominant hand with the weak hand left open for strikes and parries and the weak foot foward.
 
Rohin,


You might want to check the latest ambidextrous offerings by several knife companies, if you haven't already. Benchmade, Spyderco, SOG, Al Mar - there are many good folders now with reversible clips.

I still remember more than 10 years ago, when I decided to substitute my Balisong as a carry piece for a one-handed opening, pocket clip folder - in this case, the original Spyderco Endura, which back then was offered only as a right-handed model. I used to clip it to my left front pants pocket, to be drawn and turned in my left hand before opening. Possible, yes, but less than ideal. In my opinion, the reversible clips are the way to go. Even better would be to adopt a redundant system where you carry two folders of the same model, one in each pocket, with clips configured for left and right carry respectively. That would give you immediate options in case one of the hands can't be used at the moment of action for whatever reason.


Regards,

Leo
 
I do most of my training during classes with knife in weak hand; that's the only way I can go through knife tapping and other two-man drills with my right-handed fellow practitioners
Click to expand...

My instructor makes me do the Vital Templates this way (right and left hand switch roles)

Doing drills with your weak hand, that's pretty cool. I would ask your classmates to do the tranition drills with their weak hand so you can practice with your strong hand. Very interesting and thought provoking... I'm going to transpose my transition drills so I can practice lefty (just in case I meet up with you someday:) )

S.
 
Sidewinder,


Asking classmates to do the transition drills weak-handed is an interesting idea. I practise with some of those folks outside class time as much as I can (can't get enough of that training, you know ;)), so that's something else I can suggest for those occasions as well.

I've gone through some left-handed combos/strategies with Guro Ray - he says I should consider myself lucky for being left-handed (which I do ;)). Not only I get to work with both hands and get proficient with my (not so much now) weak hand, I bring to the fight an element of surprise for being a southpaw. Besides, I constantly train with the possibility of facing a right-handed opponent in mind, while few "normal" practitioners do it the other way around.
True, it's somewhat of a bigger challenge, but I like it that way. :)


Leo
 
I recently took the McLemore Bowie & Tomahawk CQB Training seminar and we did a lot of two-handed training. I had a problem with this because I'm VERY right-hand dominant but "Mac" had us train using weak-hand and it made a huge difference.

Another interesting training scenario we did was switching hands when we were using the Navaja. After some work the moves were VERY smooth and while traditionally switching hands is a no-no it was a very natural reaction when grappling.

My other issue was getting a smooth-move from using both hands since I would normally use my left to block and my right to cut. Using my left and getting it out of the way before the right came in made for some interesting training. Thank god for training knives or I'd be a couple fingers short. :D

I now spend time equally doing the drills with both hands and have noticed the difference in the left although I still lead with my right (and don't try to file that away so that you can kick my butt, I'll have changed the moves by then ;) ).

Now, footwork.....

That was a huge issue in that seminar and another one that I went to. Most of us had martial arts training and moved in the tradition "L" footwork which in some cases did not work at ALL with the CQB training we were getting. It's very hard to change to way your body moves once you have a rhythm. In my "humble I don't know squat" opinion, isn't it better to adjust the training with what comes natural than to try to move unnaturally? I know that if you work with it, it to will come natural but then, don't you risk hesitating when it comes down to it because your body wants to move one way but your brain and training have told you to move another?
 
Hi Suzanne,


In my "humble I don't know squat" opinion, isn't it better to adjust the training with what comes natural than to try to move unnaturally? I know that if you work with it, it to will come natural but then, don't you risk hesitating when it comes down to it because your body wants to move one way but your brain and training have told you to move another?
Click to expand...

Good question. Research shows that it takes thousands of repetitions for a move to become ingrained (too bad I don't have my copy of Bruce Siddle's "Sharpening the Warrior's Edge" here with me - if I recall correctly, he covers this subject well). If it's a sound move, I believe it's worth it to invest in the training, even if at first it doesn't look that "natural". Instinctive reactions can sometimes be your worst enemy, particularly when it comes to knife fighting (in the system I'm currently studying, we train to take advantage of such reactions).
 
1. I'm not representing my opinions as an expert.
2. Years ago, it was discovered that even though fairly equal qualification-time was devoted to switching firearms to weak-hand for weak-side barricade firing, the vast majority of LEO's would not relinquish the strong-hand grip to shoot weak-side in actual street instances. Thus, in many cases, it was recognized that weak side shooting would be done by compensating for a strong-hand grip (regardless of calm-minded training hours devoted to weak hand). My take on this is folks (LEO's too) will stay with whichever hand they have the greatest trust in under actual moments of extreme need (unless the primary hand/arm is not functional).
3. Point #1 repeated.
Brian
 
Following a James Sass link I discovered the following:

"The author favors a concealed position, using the left hand, for in-close quarters fighing, the element of surprise is the chief ingredient of success."

W. E. Fairbairn in Get Tough

http://www.gutterfighting.org/fairbairnknife.html

-----

As a left-handed person I consider myself (and all left-handers) gifted when it comes to the knife.

An early Marine Corps instructor taught us that once the adversary knows about the knife it has out-lived its usefulness.

I do everything possible (in terms of dress and appearance) to present myself to the world as a right-handed person, so as to preserve the advantage of a knife in the left hand.

Consider that if it comes down to the knife (a socially very unacceptable means of self-defense) my life must already hang desperately in the balance, and I therefore need every advantage (fair or unfair, socially acceptable or not) I can get.
This applies to survival only and not to contests, training or "knife-fights."
 
Don't know if I was clear enough - in my answer to Suzanne, I was referring specifically to her question on footwork when I mentioned the possible advantage of adopting different techniques. Like I said before, even though I spend a good amount of time drilling with my right (non-dominant) hand - which can be an advantage in case my dominant hand is somehow disabled or trapped - I'd always prefer to face a real threat with weapon in left (strong) hand. That goes for handguns, blades and sticks.
That's my take on the subject anyway, as a reasonably knowledgeable, long-term student of combative systems (not an "expert").
 
Mr. Daher:
Please forgive me if you felt I was responding to your post, as I was not intending to do so (thought I was just pitching in on the thread in general terms). Also, no sarcasm was meant in the "expert" disclaimer...I merely mean to state up front that I don't consider myself to be an expert in this (or most other) topics...matter of fact, I really try to RUN the other way when I see the possibility of being tagged with such an onorous label. You and many others may well be more studied on this subject.

PS: I carry my emergency knife on my left side, and practice with it in that orientation. My primary emergency tool still resides on my right side.
Again, no dissing intended.
Brian
 
No problem. Just thought I should make myself clear, in case I wasn't the first time. I'm just relating my personal experiences anyway.
 
depends which side your 'internal gyro' favors. this largely depends on your background. for karate-trained people, you would prefer to keep your primary weapon in the right hand, reverse. for kali practitioners trained in espada y daga (sword and dagger), the weak hand holds the blade. for single-stick/knife-trained kali/arnis types, the stronghand is favored. one balisong stylist also taught me how to shift in mid-stride ---kinda iffy but it has its uses.
 
Hank,

for kali practitioners trained in espada y daga (sword and dagger), the weak hand holds the blade.
Click to expand...

True - but that's only because the main weapon (the "espada" or sword, which in training is often substituted by a rattan stick) is in the strong hand. If all one has is a knife, I'd say keep it in the strong hand.
 
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