Question on knife sharpening

palmerdl said:
If your destroying blade temper or rounding off tips on any power sharpening system... YOU'RE NOT DOING IT CORRECTLY. The negative comments on power sharpening seem to be from people who just don't want to sharpen any other way than traditional, or haven't taken the time to learn correctly. It's not that hard to learn.

I use a Kalamazoo 1x42" belt sander, and I've done everything from keychain size knives to 24" machetes. Even Stanley knife utility blades... just because. The Kalamazoo is not the top of the line, but works just fine at the price point. Been using it for about 6 or 7 years. Good selection of belts for 1x42. I use abrasive belts, linen belts with CBN, and leather belts with compound.

I have a Work Sharp, not the Ken Onion model. I've used it for scissors and ceramic blades with diamond belts. Works fine, just not as good as the bigger 1x42, for my uses. As others have stated, if you follow the instructions and pay attention, it will do the job. Having said that, I have fixed a couple of blade tips for a buddy who didn't pay attention.

You are NOT going to ruin the temper on a blade unless you're not using you head. If you go slow enough across any belt that you blue the steel, you're not doing it right. You're certainly not going to change crystal structures or lower blade hardness, by using a power system correctly. That's just plain BS.
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Well, it doesn't show the whole post, but I quoted it all because it was spot on. You can EASILY see the comments from people that don't own one, never personally used one over a period of time, or didn't follow instructions.

I have an eclectic collection of about 200 knives all the way from my beloved carbon steel CASES from my youth in the early 60s, to my Spyderco and ZTs in S35VN, and even an older Kershaw with an S90V blade. I don't have any heartburn at all polishing up the edges on my KO sharpener. For convenience since I am obsessed with my edges I touch up many of my blades daily with a 1200gr oval rod.

The KO machine is wonderful for repairing a really bad edge, or a damaged edge. You can dial in the speed and the grits as needed to remove tiny amounts of metal. It is an excellent machine for setting your bevels to your taste, giving you an easy to strop or hone edge.

I sharpen the knives for a local food distributor and for waaaayyyy too many of my friends. I charge them both. Both are very, very happy with the edges they get from me using that little machine.

I have also recommended it to a couple of guys that were tired of paying me, AND FOLLOWING THE INSTRUCTIONS, they practiced on old knives and kitchen blades before putting their hunting knives in the guide. It is awful for me to see a 65 year old man that can't get shaving sharp free hand with stones, but that's our world. With that little machine, my boys couldn't be happier as they have very sharp knives now for the first time in their lives without asking for help.

Since my bigger work knives go to work with me everyday and earn their living (today I had to cut two thicknesses of asphalt shingles with my ZT 0909) they edges often need a quick swipe on the diamond rods. I won't give those diamond rods up, but with so many knives in the stable, I won't give up my KO, either.

If you buy the KO, go to their website and look for the KO television special.

Robert
 
You don't have to use a power sharpening system to know that they remove metal quickly and thus are unforgiving. I have had two world famous full time knife makers hog off too much metal using their power tools when asked to do a "spa treatment." One was a master smith...if they can muck it up, anyone can. When it when asked why he needed to take off 1-2mm of the blade to sharpen a convex edge, the master smith stated that's not very much...one man's OK sharpening job might not be another's.
 
Well I received it in the mail today. Already sharpened a VERY dull kitchen knife and touched up my PM2. Got both knives hair popping sharp. I have to say this thing is idiot proof IMO. Now I'm gonna go around the house and find every pair of scissors along with my collection of knives and go to work!
 
Good for you! Don't let the naysayers keep you from learning. Now learn to strop to maintain your edge and not have to go back to the power every time.
 
I just use an old Montgomery Wards 1" x 30" belt grinder. Like anything else, it takes time to learn and refine your skill. Start with some junk knives. Be careful on the initial plunge.
 
palmerdl said:
Good for you! Don't let the naysayers keep you from learning. Now learn to strop to maintain your edge and not have to go back to the power every time.
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Exactly. I would assess the first time user's remark as "idiot proof", but some seem to find it beyond their grasp.

I agree with your comment about not going back to a power sharpen every time. BUT... my amigo that is in love with his newly found sharpening skills told me that they offer a leather belt for the KO! He has that on the machine, and when he gets that urge to refresh his edge, it takes him about 15 seconds (literally) to strop his favorite work knife. Just a little green polish on the belt and he is thrilled with the edge. I have seen it; the edge itself is almost a mirror.

I won't ever go without my 1200gr diamond rod. I also remember a lot of discussion about "over sharpening" knives, some here and some on another venue. I decided a very unscientific test. I have a favorite chef's knife that I use, so I bought a second one just in case they quit making it. I compared the sizes and the 5 year old knife is almost exactly the same dimensions as the new one. Literally off a few thousandths. I literally sharpen my kitchen knives on a 1200gr rod every single time I use them, which is about 8 times a week.

Now, there is so little difference in the knife blades after a little sharpening on the benchmark piece I gave up measuring. If you sharpen well, maintain your edge and take as little metal off as possible you won't run out of metal on your knives. These will easily last me the rest of my lifetime.

There IS a downside to the KO machine, though. His wife has noticed that his arms are smoother than hers as he has shaved all the hair off of them testing out his new edges to see if they were literally, actually, shaving sharp.

Robert
 
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midnight flyer said:
Exactly. I would assess the first time user's remark as "idiot proof", but some seem to find it beyond their grasp.

I agree with your comment about not going back to a power sharpen every time. BUT... my amigo that is in love with his newly found sharpening skills told me that they offer a leather belt for the KO! He has that on the machine, and when he gets that urge to refresh his edge, it takes him about 15 seconds (literally) to strop his favorite work knife. Just a little green polish on the belt and he is thrilled with the edge. I have seen it; the edge itself is almost a mirror.

I won't ever go without my 1200gr diamond rod. I also remember a lot of discussion about "over sharpening" knives, some here and some on another venue. I decided a very unscientific test. I have a favorite chef's knife that I use, so I bought a second one just in case they quit making it. I compared the sizes and the 5 year old knife is almost exactly the same dimensions as the new one. Literally off a few thousandths. I literally sharpen my kitchen knives on a 1200gr rod every single time I use them, which is about 8 times a week.

Now, there is so little difference in the knife blades after a little sharpening on the benchmark piece I gave up measuring. If you sharpen well, maintain your edge and take as little metal off as possible you won't run out of metal on your knives. These will easily last me the rest of my lifetime.

There IS a downside to the KO machine, though. His wife has noticed that his arms are smoother than hers as he has shaved all the hair off of them testing out his new edges to see if they were literally, actually, shaving sharp.

Robert
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:) I save arm hair by testing on one hair at a time on the back of my hand. If I can flick one hair off with the tip of the knife, I know I got the rest sharp. Push cutting paper saves hair, too.

I use leather belts on the Kali with black and green compound. Mostly use the black for power stropping. Green really just polishes, but it would simultaneously fix any little burr, which is what makes your knife loose that hair popping feel. Provided we're not talking about a truly dull knife. I think I've read that black is about 2K grit and green is about 4 or 6K. There are many different scales for assigning grit numbers, so it's hard to use direct cross references.

You can use a plain leather belt to strop. My kitchen knives get stropped on a two piece razor strop that is a horsehide with a canvas strop attached. The horsehide gets an oil treatment and the canvas gets white compound. I've probably had that thing 50 years ( yup, I'm old ).

As I stated in my first post, I have used the Work Sharp for scissors. The only knife I have sharpened on it is a ceramic ( zirconium oxide ) with their diamond belts. I can use my linen belts with CBN on the Kali for ceramic, but it takes longer. The WS diamond did it pretty quick. Not sure how long the will last and they are a little pricey. I know you can buy diamond paste in various micron sizes for the big belts, but I have never investigated since I'm pretty satisfied with my current 'system'. Maybe I will now, just to try on the ceramic.
 
As has been said power sharpeners can work great but are unforgiving. I have been sharpening with power for 40+ years. My setup involves four grinders with various paper wheels and a 1x42 belt sander. Also use diamond rods, strops and pastes for finish work or touch ups.
 
It works well for me, producing mirrored edges easily with the blade grinding attachment. I burned out one motor using the leather strop. Per customer service, they no longer sell those, instead they sell cloth strops as the leather is too heavy. Also, green compound is useless for steels containing vanadium, the vanadium is harder than the compound. Do the right thing and use a diamond paste, spray, or emulsion on modern superstore.

EDIT: I would also note that sharpening for looks (those mirror edges) & sharpening for performance can be two mutually exclusive processes.
 
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4mer_FMF said:
I did not know this? Anyone need a 3lb brick of green stuff? ;)
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If you search this forum for "green vanadium", with no quotation marks, you will get about 150 hits; quite the high number of these are devoted to discussion of the failure of green compound to yield good results on high vanadium content steel, since the green "crayons" are largely chromium oxide.

On a personal note, I tried the green crayon with an Illinois leather hanging strop. I had consistently good resuts, but not great resuts, in sharpening an Emmie Super Commander. On anything else, typically an S30V, S90V, S110V, M4, D2, VG10 Spydie blade, I never had the same results.
 
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RLDubbya said:
It works well for me, producing mirrored edges easily with the blade grinding attachment. I burned out one motor using the leather strop. Per customer service, they no longer sell those, instead they sell cloth strops as the leather is too heavy. Also, green compound is useless for steels containing vanadium, the vanadium is harder than the compound. Do the right thing and use a diamond paste, spray, or emulsion on modern superstore.
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Thanks for posting the info on the change to cloth from leather. There are plenty of leather belts out there for these machines now, I want to let the guys know that recommended the machine to not to purchase one.

RLDubbya said:
EDIT: I would also note that sharpening for looks (those mirror edges) & sharpening for performance can be two mutually exclusive processes.
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Amen. I have given up this fight. My work knives (construction use) are sharpened to one grit, my raw meat butchering knives to another, my utility knives to another, my carving knives (wood and dinner!) to another. Any my old carbon steel have their preferred level of sharpening for me, too. With all of today's guides, stones of any grit, different kinds of crystalline polish grits, and on and on... I am not impressed at all with mirror polished edges. Seems every steel in my knives has a
sweet spot for sharpening and an angle, too. Finding that has always been the key to me.

Robert
 
midnight flyer said:
Thanks for posting the info on the change to cloth from leather. There are plenty of leather belts out there for these machines now, I want to let the guys know that recommended the machine to not to purchase one.



Amen. I have given up this fight. My work knives (construction use) are sharpened to one grit, my raw meat butchering knives to another, my utility knives to another, my carving knives (wood and dinner!) to another. Any my old carbon steel have their preferred level of sharpening for me, too. With all of today's guides, stones of any grit, different kinds of crystalline polish grits, and on and on... I am not impressed at all with mirror polished edges. Seems every steel in my knives has a
sweet spot for sharpening and an angle, too. Finding that has always been the key to me.

Robert
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You are welcome. If you call WS Customer Service, put on your best sweet-talkin', mama-seducin', teen-girl luvvin' voice, and explain that you are using leather, are worried about it, and would like a sample pack of the cloth, you just might get 2 cloth belts and some polishing compound (some of which is the green stuff - that doesn't work all that well on vanadium) free.
 
my buddy has this sharpener and its really handy, and sharpens well and fast and it is not easy to ruin your knife on it.
 
RLDubbya said:
You are welcome. If you call WS Customer Service, put on your best sweet-talkin', mama-seducin', teen-girl luvvin' voice, and explain that you are using leather, are worried about it, and would like a sample pack of the cloth, you just might get 2 cloth belts and some polishing compound (some of which is the green stuff - that doesn't work all that well on vanadium) free.
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Well, I got a helluva chuckle out of that. Afraid my boyish charm wasn't much to begin with, and probably all out of it by now. Still, might give it a whirl!

Robert (another RLW!)
 
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