Question on liner (lock) thickness...

Joined
Jun 5, 2002
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While i do realize that the thickness of the liner lock isnt the ONLY thing that matters, i do believe thickness to be important. So, my question is, what is the thickest liner lock you have seen or heard of? Im more interested in the thickness of liner locks than frame locks, we all know that a frame lock is always thicker than a liner lock, though it might also be instructive to hear about them as well. For example, how thick is the Sebenza frame lock? Mayo TNT? (For those of you who are new, the Sebenza is the horrible, dangerous knife that is riddled with flaws that nobody should ever buy, even for $50. :) )

I know that Mick Strider says the liner on the AR folder is .10" thick, and thats pretty thick, i even read a post on another forum from a custom knifemaker who made a folder he called affectionately "The Beast" that had a liner that was .125" thick. The Microtech LCC has a pretty thick liner lock, anybody know its thickness?

So, id be interested to hear about knives with thick liner locks, measurements if you have them, and even the thickness of your favorite frame lock. Hey, if you happen to have a pic of the liner lock engaging the blade, id love to see it too.

I must admite that i prefer frame locks simply because of the super thick lock and the increased engagement. I have also seen some pretty pathetic liner locks out there, some were paper thin.
 
There are a couple of basic design considerations...too thin and the liner flexes, too thick and it is impossible to release with one hand.

The liner can be the thickness of the blade if you want but it must be relieved a bit at the flex point to allow releasing. I find that anything over 1/16" thick is very difficult to release unless relieved.
 
I've broken out the digital calipers and the folder box to measure a few liner locks. You can decide which you like best,

Buck/Strider: .0855 in
Spyderco Starmate: .0455 in
CRK&T Falcon: .058 in
Microtech LCC: .066 in
Microtech SOCOM Elite: .116 in:eek:
Al Mar SERE 2000: .060 in
Timberline Wortac lg.: .061 in
BM AFCK: .055 in
CRKT M-18: .057 in

Aside from the MT SOCOM Elite they all seem to have a fairly close lock thickness.

I hope this is kinda what you were looking for. If not, just attribute it to another one of my "senior moments".:D
 
Yes! These are exactly the responses im looking for, im very curious to know the liner/frame lock thickness of any knife that you happen to know the measurements.

I must say that i was very surprised to see the Microtech SOCOM has such a thick liner lock, i didnt expect that. The liners on LCC's are very thick to my eyes and yet, the SOCOM is so much thicker. I may just have to check one out now.

And thanks for finding that link to the "Beast" with the .125" liners. That thing must be awfully strong.

Keep 'em coming! Id still love to know the thickness of a Mayo TNT, a Sebenza, Obenauf, JW Smith, Carson, etc. and any other knife you happen to like and know about. Ideally, id like to have the thickness of any of the popular, higher end knives out there.
 
The liners on the AR appear to be as thick as the framelocks on the TNT

standard



and Sebenza

standard


The Steve Ryan M1 also has very thick liners...though not quite as thick as the Farid T5000...the framelock slabs on the Farid are .250" thick! (and the blade is 5/16"!!!)

RL
 
the MT SOCOM elite w/the microbar has the thickest liner i have see, if that means anything.

also, imho, a SOCOM elite is a heck of a knife

greg
 
Most of the liners on J.W. Smith folders run between .060 to.070. The LDC-5 has a thickness of .070. The one that John is building for me has a liner thickness of .075. Charles Marlowe is doing a large spearpoint for me that has a liner thickness of .083". Kits also run in the same neighborhood as Johns, and so do Mike Obenauf's. The Vanguard/E&E that Kit does for Les has a thickness of .075".
 
MT kestral is the thickest I have seen by quite a margin but I sold it on so am only going from memory.

I had a mini scocom come through my hands and was very disapointed with it in comparison to the kestral, you would not think they had been made by the same company.

The kestral was a good bit older than the nini socom (1999 v's 2002 (i think))
 
Oddly, the thinnest locking liner among my EDC folders belongs to my largest blade: the Spydie Military. I'd love to see it get beefed up some, cause otherwise it's a great carry.
 
The question is whether a liner lock would benefit from a thicker locking bar. I've heard that the weakest point is not the lock itself, but the pins that affix it to the handle. Anybody care to comment? In this case, it sounds like a thick locking bar would just create a false sense of security.
 
Buzz wrote : he question is whether a liner lock would benefit from a thicker locking bar

I'd also like an answer to Buzzbait's question :)

I like the thin liner on the Military personally. I love the way it's so thin and light that it disappears in the pocket. Quite a revelation for a knife that size. From what I have read, the lock strength is excellent too. Rated "Heavy Duty" by Spyderco.

Strength in a small and light package must be the holy grail :)
 
Yes it is thick, but not a true liner lock, and is only as strong as the small screw that holds it in place and the small spring that makes it work.
 
I would think you are right Buzz. On the inlaid liner locks I've seen there is a screw or pin that holds them in place and I think this would be the area of trouble if there was going to be trouble. I know that Pat Crawford uses two or three pins for the liner locks he makes which have an inlaid liner. I think you alleviate the problem when the maker makes the spring from the liner itself and they are one piece.
 
.125" thick "liners" is a frame lock with overlays if you ask me. Thats the same thickness I use for blades.Your basically seeing two different styles of knives merge together.
Theres a lot of stuff going on in a linerlock even though its a simple design. The liner has to be strong enough to resist flexing but thats not the most important issue. Look at how the liner is bent, if it does flex its more likely to bend over and keep the knife from closing. The way it engages the tang is what determines how likely it is to slip off the tang and let the knife close.
And when a linerlock locks up, the blade is pivoting on the pivot, and wedged between the liner and the stop pin. As downards pressure is put on the blade, it pushes against the front of the liner, and the pivot pin is put ender stress pulling it towards the front of the handle. If there isn't enough meat in the tang around the pivot, or in the handle around the pivot,or its to thin, it could shear out.
Thicker liners do make the knife hold up better under lateral stress which is a much more likely way to destroy the knife. If the handle flexes laterally, it changes the position of the liners and could let the liner slip off the tang. So thicker liners do have some benefits. If you use a strong enough handle material like the spderco military, or you use bolsters or a hefty backspacer to stiffen things up, there isn't much need for ultra thick liners though.The overall design matters much more than just how thick the liners are. In most cases its overkill.
 
It is not really fair to characterize the Military linerlock as too thin. As it is made of titanium, it's really several times stronger than a steel lock the same thickness and quite a bit lighter. That's how they managed to get such a strong lock and still maintain a very slim profile that fits well in the pocket. Thickness is not really the only determining factor in lock strength, what it is made of and how is just as important.
 
Arathol
Titanium has a higher strength to weight ratio than steel, but dimensionally its not as strong. A steel liner of the same thickness would be stronger, but it would weigh much more. The main benefits of using Titanium is its resistance to corrosion, and its light weight. You use a thicker Ti liner to get enough strength, but you still come in weighing less than steel. Ti also has a high friction coefficient with steel, so you get a galling effect where the liner doesn't want to slip off the tang and disengage.
I don't think the liner on the spyderco military is too thin. I've been making linerlocks with .040" stainless steel liners and have been happy with the results.They pass the spine whack test, and have a nice solid feel while cutting. I would like to find some steel a little thicker, like .060 to use though, mainly because you can get better purchase with the screws that go into the liners from the scales and bolsters.
Thick liners can stiffen the handle up and give the knife a nice heft, but there are many more aspects in making a solid lock.
 
What I like is that there is much more material in contact with the tang which, no matter how you look at it equals better, safer and stronger lockup. This has been my EDC for two weeks now and I'm loving it:

The Beast- 3/16" thick blade and 1/8" titanium liners

beast3.jpg


Next to Strider AR

beast4.jpg
 
Medium TNT- .060-.100 This is hard to measure since the lockbar is contoured the same as the handle.
LCC- .060
DDR 4" linerlock EDC- .070
DDR 4" Maxx- about .150 Again, a little hard to measure with a dial caliper.
DDR 3" framelock EDC- about .130 This handle is also contoured.
Tom Anderson Mohawk "inlaid linerlock"- .055
 
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