question on small 21 sebenza lockup percentage

I don't hold the Sebenza in that kind of regard. I don't own one, I choose a different S30V drop point Titanium framelock. I actually use it.

I didn't diss the guy any more than he dissed CRK. After all, they have been making knives for decades, they set the standard for affordable knives in this construction, and they are the experts. Like I said earlier - WHAT COMES OUT OF THE FACTORY IS THE STANDARD. Why someone with no skills, training, expertise, or credibility complains baffles me.

Why did they spend the money - just to argue with the maker he's putting out junk? CRK's standards pretty much ensure you don't get that - and the majority of buyers are quite happy.

Nonetheless, there are a few who think they know better just because they bought the knife - which means nothing about them other than they have disposable income.

Most Americans have no clue about production standards, what it takes to make something, and how much work goes into it. They are just consumers working at a desk job - not engineers on the plant floor. A keyboard to the internet doesn't mean their opinion has any validity.

Again - if CRK made, inspected, and released the knife for sale - that's the standard of construction. If the results aren't good enough, don't buy his junk - either show us how, or buy knives you know will meet standards no one else can afford.

It's not just this thread, it's an arrogant attitude among many who post that perfection is their right, and they can demand it.

They haven't really had to get a life yet - it seems to be handed to them on a silver platter. All they have to do is be obnoxious, and customer service falls all over themselves to make them happy. And all of us have to pay the bill.
 
colubrid said:
Well since the lockup now is 80%+ I guess it IS out of specs.

Surprised this would not bother anyone else since I have seen pictures of very used sebenzas with only 50-60% lockup. Guess I prefer not pushing on the lock to slide it over that distance. This is a small seb so that does make it harder to use.
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It would bother me. I'm with you . . .
 
Well, we all have opinions, but in this case the only opinions that matter are the OP's, and CRK's. Many of us feel there is nothing to worry about. If the lock continues to travel, CRK will fix it. So, if the OP is not happy with the knife, he should contact CRK and they will either explain why the knife is OK, or decide something is wrong and fix it. After that, if he is still unhappy, he can get rid of the knive and choose something else, and not like Sebenzas. With all the problems in todays world, no use in getting upset over a knife.
 
robicon said:
Com'on man, no reason to deride the guy.

He paid $450 for a framelock pocket knife. One that supposedly sets the bar for any others.

Would "I" be concerned? if it continued to move, yes I would.


Send it back in OP. Have them fix it. You paid top dollar for a high-end knife and it doesn't suit you.


FWIW, I think some here take it a little too personally when they perceive that their "golden ox" is being gored.
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Amen to that (in a secular way :) )
 
pvicenzi said:
After that, if he is still unhappy, he can get rid of the knive and choose something else, and not like Sebenzas. With all the problems in todays world, no use in getting upset over a knife.
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Okay lets talk resale:

would any of you buy this knife if another was offered for $10 more and had 60% lockup?

How many would buy a NIB sebenza with 80% lockup at top dollar?

How many would buy a NIB strider with the blade leaning all the way over (but not quite touching) to one side at top dollar?

Oh I guess if it is YOUR money. Then these 80% lockups do matter. heh heh!

I see these things on the classifeds. The proof is there because when a knife is straight , irregardless of what the maker says, it is still preference. And MOST PREFER TO GET A KNIFE THAT IS STRAIGHT FOR $450.

Now how many want to buy this knife with $10 knocked off the retail price? Or will you WAIT and get getting one that locks-up at 60%?

hmmmm
 
colubrid said:
Okay lets talk resale:

would any of you buy this knife if another was offered for $10 more and had 60% lockup?

How many would buy a NIB sebenza with 80% lockup at top dollar?

How many would buy a NIB strider with the blade leaning all the way over (but not quite touching) to one side at top dollar?

Oh I guess if it is YOUR money. Then these 80% lockups do matter. heh heh!

I see these things on the classifeds. The proof is there because when a knife is straight , irregardless of what the maker says, it is still preference. And MOST PREFER TO GET A KNIFE THAT IS STRAIGHT FOR $450.

Now how many want to buy this knife with $10 knocked off the retail price? Or will you WAIT and get getting one that locks-up at 60%?

hmmmm
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I bought my dog paws in December and after a week or 2 of break in, it had about the same lockup as yours. I too was concerned and wondering if I bought a lemon, but after checking with the CRK website I decided to wait and see what happened. After 5 months of moderate use, the blade still locks up more solidly than any other folder I own. So, I guess I can talk as though it were my money.
 
tirod is under the impression that since CRK makes the best framelock, that it is the best framelock that can be made. Which is funny, because he has about as much authority as colubrid in stating what the standard is and what is acceptable for any individual. No one else determines what value you place on something or what criteria you use.
 
pvicenzi said:
I bought my dog paws in December and after a week or 2 of break in, it had about the same lockup as yours. I too was concerned and wondering if I bought a lemon, but after checking with the CRK website I decided to wait and see what happened. After 5 months of moderate use, the blade still locks up more solidly than any other folder I own. So, I guess I can talk as though it were my money.
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Yeah I am going to hold onto mine as well. Well if I had a choice I would not.

Take into the fact shipping plus insurance PLUS the return shipping of $15. CRK asks you to include when sending the knife back I would be spending another -$40.


Yeah i will hold onto mine to.
 
hardheart said:
tirod is under the impression that since CRK makes the best framelock, that it is the best framelock that can be made. Which is funny, because he has about as much authority as colubrid in stating what the standard is and what is acceptable for any individual. No one else determines what value you place on something or what criteria you use.
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No, CRK doesn't make the best framelock out there. They make a nice knife, but I don't remember being much of a fan. I chose a different maker because the Sebenza features didn't fit my criteria. I determined for me what my standards of construction, fit, and finish were, and bought accordingly.

Nobody here has authority to state what the standard is and what is acceptable for any individual, or what value we place on something? If that's the rule - no one can tell anyone what the standard is - please be consistent with the application. We can't state if someone is qualified to propose a standard, because we'd have to create a standard of qualifications.

Therefore, don't post if someone is qualified or not. Just accept anyone's view as their truth, accept it, and move on.

A lot of threads dumped in GB&U have no valid point if you press the issue. It would be hypocritical and illogical to claim no one has authority to enforce a standard. Spammers and trolls would abound, and the forum would be useless.

Even saying, "no one can state what the standards are" sets a standard. Who's qualified to determine that for anyone?

In this case, I proposed that CRK set the standard for their knives, and if someone didn't like what they got, who were they to complain?

The OP is keeping the knife. I think he agrees that CRK's standards are what they are - not a fantasy expectation of perfection.
 
colubrid I'm calling your out.

Please take a digital measurement of your knife indicating both the 60% position and the 80% position. My take is you are a perfectionist complainer, rather full of yourself, with insufficient knowledge and indeed a positive dislike for the acquisition of wisdom.

"irregardless" indeed.
 
Oh gosh no, dave, taking measurements means adhering to a standard - inch or metric. It would justify the use of the ".00005"" standard CRK uses in CNC machining, fit, and finish.

No standard at all is what is needed - then we can complain about everything, and be justified in every viewpoint and every case.

$450 knives are no better than $2 dollar knives at the checkout lane, and we need to quit using $$ as a value judgement. That's a harsh and inaccurate standard of the material cost, labor, and time put into what some think is the world's perfect folder. Whatever the cost, labor, time, or specifications, every knife is as good as the next - and they should all be priced the same, to make it fair and equal.

God forbid we should expect people to adhere to a standard. :D
 
tirod3 said:
Oh gosh no, dave, taking measurements means adhering to a standard - inch or metric. It would justify the use of the ".00005"" standard CRK uses in CNC machining, fit, and finish.

No standard at all is what is needed - then we can complain about everything, and be justified in every viewpoint and every case.

$450 knives are no better than $2 dollar knives at the checkout lane, and we need to quit using $$ as a value judgement. That's a harsh and inaccurate standard of the material cost, labor, and time put into what some think is the world's perfect folder. Whatever the cost, labor, time, or specifications, every knife is as good as the next - and they should all be priced the same, to make it fair and equal.

God forbid we should expect people to adhere to a standard. :D
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:D

From Chris Reeve himself, "Our knives are fitted to the tightest tolerances in the industry and the Sebenza has set the standard against which other knives are compared".


Higher price does not necessarily equate higher quality, but we as consumers have been taught "you get what you pay for"/"buy once, cry once"etc etc.

Now, I detected a fair amount of sarcasm in the post I quoted (hence the smiley). So with that being said, I believe your satire actually supports the OP's claim that he should expect the "ideal" pocketknife. The maker himself states that his product sets "the standard".

IMHO, the OP should have contacted CRK about his issue and given them an opportunity to address it. Had they told him to pound sand, then I feel it would have been appropriate to make this post. I don't need affirmation from a bunch of anonymous people on the internet as to what I do and don't find acceptable. I do know that if I paid $450 for a folding knife (of which I have a few), I had damn well better be happy with the product.

Had I purchased a Sebenza like the OP's, I'd use it until the "issue" created a problem with function. If the knife became difficult to open or close, I'd get on the horn with CRK to discuss their "standard".

Synopsis: OP handled this wrong. He wasn't happy with a product and decided to air it out on the forum (or get others' opinion). He should've contacted CRK and allowed them to make good on the issue.

JMO, ymmv
 
He should've contacted CRK and allowed them to make good on the issue.
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I already explained that. They want $15. return ship and I have to spend shipping and insurance to get it to them totalling about $40.

CRK told me they cannot comment or promise anything without first seeing the knife.

I just decided to keep it. i would offer it for sale for retail minus $10. but knowbody responded to the fact if you would buy a seb with 80% lockup if another was offered at 60% at the same price.

As for DaveH cooment about "calling me out". Glock pistols produce a slim G36 which is the same cal as the g30. Some say the measurements are only minsicule and would rather carry the larger G30. But carrying a G36 you do feel a big difference even though on paper it sounds small.
 
FWIW, for about four years off and on I've carried and used a large classic Sebenza that started with with about 75% contact when new. The lockbar has not moved any farther. I feel the lockup is more secure and less likely to fail.

If it ever gets to 100%, I'll send it in.

75% is within specs.

Without something to accurately measure it, I wouldn't swear it isn't 80%. Or 70%.
 
A used Sebenza runs about 60% percent of it's retail as a starting price. It's what I paid for a NIB Buck Mayo - 60%.

This isn't a buy/sell/trade section, so if you really want to move the problem child along, post there. I suspect you will get offers.

I would buy it even if the lockup was 100% - because any less lockup either way isn't full mechanical strength, and therefore at a weaker position.

Let's examine that a bit more - whether 75% under locked, or overtraveled and only having 75% contact with the rest hanging past - IT'S THE SAME RATED STRENGTH - 75%!

Only the high dollar thick locks have the issue of being less than 100%. Cheap liner locks are always 100% because of the thin liner on the thicker blade. Except when they slip past. :grumpy:

I would say any less than 50% is bordering on a significant loss in lock up strength, and would prefer a lot more.

Sarcasm aside, do you want a knife with 75% or 100% lockup strength? We take the lesser anticipating that wear and tear will move it to the 100% position over time. Lots of actual Sebenza owners have said their's never moved after years of use.

It's not an issue of $40 - after all, that's cheap to get something truly perfect (like I take anybody's marketing hype as gospel.) But if you are going to use it - and darn few really do - then it's going to get scratched, dropped, sharpened, and pocket worn. In six months time, it will be used anyway. 75% lockup will be an insignificant detail.

It's a tool. I don't hear this kind of fuss over hammers.
 
Precisely the point. Hammers are tools used to beat nails into wood. A knife is a tool used to cut things.

It's a statement about knives that there are $400 price tags. No one really gives a darn about $400 hammers - so there aren't any. No hype about a born on date certificate, leather slip cases to carry them in, pretensions of .00005" precision standards, or how perfectly amazing they are.

Nobody complains about the hammer face being 2 degrees over arced, or the nail puller converging at too acute an angle, or the radius too shallow to effeciently pull the nail.

But we've managed to put out three pages about whether one knife on the face of the earth is defective because it has 75-80% lockup rather than 50%.

Cry me a river.
 
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