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Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
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Question thread
- Thread starter Moorik
- Start date
I’ve been thinking about something.I saw that you’re planning to make the Tyrant Katana and Bush Waki in Z-Tuff steel.Based on my experience with the Fell Beast, I completely agree with this choice.So, are you choosing this steel because its properties are very well-suited, similar to or even better than 3V, especially for such large blades?Are you avoiding 3V because it’s significantly more expensive and harder to work with, or because you genuinely believe Z-Tuff is superior in this context?
For your future blades, like the Super-8 or smaller ones like the Fjord Hiker, what steels are you planning to use? Variations of Z-Tuff (for toughness) and Z-Wear (for edge retention)?
Regarding the swords you’re planning to make, are you not leaning toward CPM 3V because of the cost?(Personally, I totally understand and support the choice of Z-Tuff, and I’d also prefer large chopping blades in Z-Tuff.)But are you ruling out CPM 3V because of the price, or do you genuinely think Z-Tuff is the better option?
Are you planning to use Z-Wear, CPM 10V, or MagnaCut in the future?For example, for EDC knives, it seems like one group of people leans toward MagnaCut, another toward 10V, but I, for instance, would look more toward Z-Wear.
Are there any steels you’d like to work with, or conversely, any you’d prefer to move away from?By the way, this is just my personal opinion, but Z-Tuff, especially the kind I see in your blades, is currently the most underrated steel for hard-use applications.Do you think Z-Tuff is highly underrated?
By the way, which steel is easier to mess up when working with it? Z-Tuff or 3V?
Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.
For your future blades, like the Super-8 or smaller ones like the Fjord Hiker, what steels are you planning to use? Variations of Z-Tuff (for toughness) and Z-Wear (for edge retention)?
Regarding the swords you’re planning to make, are you not leaning toward CPM 3V because of the cost?(Personally, I totally understand and support the choice of Z-Tuff, and I’d also prefer large chopping blades in Z-Tuff.)But are you ruling out CPM 3V because of the price, or do you genuinely think Z-Tuff is the better option?
Are you planning to use Z-Wear, CPM 10V, or MagnaCut in the future?For example, for EDC knives, it seems like one group of people leans toward MagnaCut, another toward 10V, but I, for instance, would look more toward Z-Wear.
Are there any steels you’d like to work with, or conversely, any you’d prefer to move away from?By the way, this is just my personal opinion, but Z-Tuff, especially the kind I see in your blades, is currently the most underrated steel for hard-use applications.Do you think Z-Tuff is highly underrated?
By the way, which steel is easier to mess up when working with it? Z-Tuff or 3V?
Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2010
- Messages
- 3,862
I’ve been thinking about something.I saw that you’re planning to make the Tyrant Katana and Bush Waki in Z-Tuff steel.Based on my experience with the Fell Beast, I completely agree with this choice.So, are you choosing this steel because its properties are very well-suited, similar to or even better than 3V, especially for such large blades?Are you avoiding 3V because it’s significantly more expensive and harder to work with, or because you genuinely believe Z-Tuff is superior in this context?
For your future blades, like the Super-8 or smaller ones like the Fjord Hiker, what steels are you planning to use? Variations of Z-Tuff (for toughness) and Z-Wear (for edge retention)?
Regarding the swords you’re planning to make, are you not leaning toward CPM 3V because of the cost?(Personally, I totally understand and support the choice of Z-Tuff, and I’d also prefer large chopping blades in Z-Tuff.)But are you ruling out CPM 3V because of the price, or do you genuinely think Z-Tuff is the better option?
Are you planning to use Z-Wear, CPM 10V, or MagnaCut in the future?For example, for EDC knives, it seems like one group of people leans toward MagnaCut, another toward 10V, but I, for instance, would look more toward Z-Wear.
Are there any steels you’d like to work with, or conversely, any you’d prefer to move away from?By the way, this is just my personal opinion, but Z-Tuff, especially the kind I see in your blades, is currently the most underrated steel for hard-use applications.Do you think Z-Tuff is highly underrated?
By the way, which steel is easier to mess up when working with it? Z-Tuff or 3V?
I'm going with Z Tuff for the swords mainly for ease of production, to keep costs down, and for that slight edge in toughness. I think they both would really shine in a sword, the cost just gets crazy. Making the Waki out of 3V might add $300 in cost and I just don't think there's any real benefit. Personally, I'd rather have a Z Tuff sword because I can get a great edge easier and I prefer that extra toughness for supporting a thinner edge.
The Super 8 and Fjord hiker will be run on the first editions in Z Tuff and Z- Wear. I've actually really been liking Z tuff in smaller knives. It cuts aggressively and is pretty easy to maintain the edge.
I'm working with my machines on the logistics of running 10V. I'd love to have a 10V Fjord hiker just for my personal use. I'd also like to try LC200N for a true stainless steel and 1V if there's any of it left.
And 3V is easier to mess up. On a small knife its not as noticeable, but on something like the Tyrant Bowie with a 13in Bevel thats 1.5in tall, the belts burn out QUICK. Once you are at 220-400 grit, you gotta really be locked in if you want a nice finish. With a 400 grit ceramic belt, you get one good pass per side, per belt. Z Tuff is more forgiving and grinds cleaner.
For
Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.
,
M
Moorik
and anyone who uses their 3V and ZTuff knives a lot, I was wondering whether you've noticed any difference in shock absorbent properties between the two.
Maybe I'm feeling things that's not there, but during my head-to-head comparison of Tyrant Bowies in 3V and Ztuff, the 3V hits like a hammer, but for some reason ZTuff seems easier on the hands, that not nearly as much shock travel back to the hands when I chop with them full on.
For context, the ZTuff is a prototype with prototype CF scales, and the 3V is with g10 scales. The 3V feels significantly better in the hands than the prototype. Lighter, better balanced, faster. I find it so incredible how much fine-tuning Hunter managed to do between prototype and production models, and they feel like completely different knives. The Ztuff prototype version feels a bit heavier, thicker, and clunkier.... initially. But when I started chopping super dense buckthorn branches, I felt more impact on my hands from the chopping with the 3V one, and the Ztuff prototype even though heavier and balanced differently, I didn't feel as much shock coming back to my hands in my strikes, and I could swing it for a lot longer. I don't think the CF vs G10 scales would make that much difference, but maybe that does factor into the experience too...
Just curious whether anybody notice any difference between using these two steels.
Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.
,
M
Moorik
and anyone who uses their 3V and ZTuff knives a lot, I was wondering whether you've noticed any difference in shock absorbent properties between the two. Maybe I'm feeling things that's not there, but during my head-to-head comparison of Tyrant Bowies in 3V and Ztuff, the 3V hits like a hammer, but for some reason ZTuff seems easier on the hands, that not nearly as much shock travel back to the hands when I chop with them full on.
For context, the ZTuff is a prototype with prototype CF scales, and the 3V is with g10 scales. The 3V feels significantly better in the hands than the prototype. Lighter, better balanced, faster. I find it so incredible how much fine-tuning Hunter managed to do between prototype and production models, and they feel like completely different knives. The Ztuff prototype version feels a bit heavier, thicker, and clunkier.... initially. But when I started chopping super dense buckthorn branches, I felt more impact on my hands from the chopping with the 3V one, and the Ztuff prototype even though heavier and balanced differently, I didn't feel as much shock coming back to my hands in my strikes, and I could swing it for a lot longer. I don't think the CF vs G10 scales would make that much difference, but maybe that does factor into the experience too...
Just curious whether anybody notice any difference between using these two steels.
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2010
- Messages
- 3,862
For
Maybe I'm feeling things that's not there, but during my head-to-head comparison of Tyrant Bowies in 3V and Ztuff, the 3V hits like a hammer, but for some reason ZTuff seems easier on the hands, that not nearly as much shock travel back to the hands when I chop with them full on.
For context, the ZTuff is a prototype with prototype CF scales, and the 3V is with g10 scales. The 3V feels significantly better in the hands than the prototype. Lighter, better balanced, faster. I find it so incredible how much fine-tuning Hunter managed to do between prototype and production models, and they feel like completely different knives. The Ztuff prototype version feels a bit heavier, thicker, and clunkier.... initially. But when I started chopping super dense buckthorn branches, I felt more impact on my hands from the chopping with the 3V one, and the Ztuff prototype even though heavier and balanced differently, I didn't feel as much shock coming back to my hands in my strikes, and I could swing it for a lot longer. I don't think the CF vs G10 scales would make that much difference, but maybe that does factor into the experience too...
Just curious whether anybody notice any difference between using these two steels.
Its probably the greater overall weight of the prototype and the thicker stock sending more energy into the target. Its a bit more of a brute than the production version and is definitely a better chopper with the extra weight.
^
Here's the story, I'll speak from a sharpening perspective.Short and to the point, no long tangents:
Technically, 3V is considered denser. Different steels have different densities and even weight per cubic centimeter (sorry, I'm from Europe, so you guys use inches, right?).For a clean test, I’d swap the handles on the Tyrants to be sure, because from my personal experience, carbon fiber (CF) dampens vibration really well.Also, try weighing them on kitchen scales—maybe they differ slightly in weight?But overall, based on sharpening or steel composition, it’s quite possible that Z-Tuff might absorb energy better.In a month, I’ll get my own Z-Tuff Tyrant and swap handles to test this. Your post really got me curious!I’ll check it myself, but I suspect G10 might be worse at dampening energy and vibration transmitted through the blade.But! It’ll be super interesting to test in person, because there’s often a scientific, numbers-based perspective and then real-world experience.
I have a Fell Beast in Z-Tuff, and when I hit really hard wood like hornbeam, oak, or even cinderblock, you can feel a slight “kickback” with the Fell Beast, but only if you swing really hard, full force. This is because the Fell Beast is fairly thin.Surprisingly, out of everything I own, my wakizashi with a 0.3-inch spine—thicker than the Tyrant—doesn’t absorb energy well. (Wakizashi absorbs Worse than the Tyrant, even though the wakizashi is thicker.) I think it’s just not a great blade overall.My Tyrant is in 3V right now, and I’ll try Z-Tuff when I get it.None of my blades absorbed energy from hard strikes on dry wood, cinderblocks, or metal pieces as well as this beast.
In theory, Z-Tuff might absorb energy better, but this characteristic is within a tiny margin, like a fraction of a percent.I’d swap the handles and test it that way to confirm the feel.This assumes Huntsman didn’t change something in the prototype, like BTE (behind-the-edge thickness), grind parameters, or something else.Physics plays a role here: the larger and thicker any material, the better it absorbs vibration.It’s quite possible this is true, especially in real-world use.
Here’s more: the sharpness of a blade can affect how impact and energy absorption feel.If one blade is sharper or duller, it can distribute vibration differently. Under a microscope, if your edge is slightly dulled or rolled, it might affect vibration distribution.
First thing I’d do in your shoes: swap the handles and confirm if G10 absorbs vibration worse than CF.Then, the cutting edge itself has a huge impact. Even a fraction of a degree difference in edge angle can change how energy is distributed through the blade. Believe it or not, a 0.2-degree difference per side (0.4 degrees total) can make a difference!
I said I’d keep it short, but this turned into a lecture...!No matter how well a blade is sharpened, you can’t make them perfectly identical. I use angle finders, micrometers, etc., and even on top-tier knives from the best makers, it’s normal to have one side at, say, 20 degrees and the other at 20.2, with slightly different grinds. Even machines have this margin of error.
It’s hard to say with absolute precision. Even your grip can affect it—haven’t you noticed that holding the handle lower feels like it transmits more vibration than gripping closer to the ricasso (near the choil)?There’s a chance one blade might be perfectly 18.0 degrees on both sides (though that’s unlikely unless Huntsman is a robot or a knife-making machine). More likely, one side is 18.0, the other 18.01–18.09, which is totally normal. Even 18.0 vs. 18.3 is fine—anything up to 18.4 degrees per side is within sharpening tolerance.
Now imagine that every Tyrant’s grinds or angles might differ by a fraction of a degree. This can affect energy absorption slightly.Plus, even identical steels can vary in hardness. For example, my blade might be 61 HRC, yours 61.3. This can affect sharpening and possibly energy distribution (I’m curious what Huntsman would say).
But! The fun part is, if you swap handles on your Tyrants, you might find that CF (carbon fiber) absorbs better.
Did you know that a cubic inch of one steel can weigh differently from a cubic inch of another steel?
But with Z-Tuff and 3V, the difference is within the margin of error, so I wouldn’t dwell on it.
I’d be curious to sharpen both blades to the same angle and test them with my own hands, with different handles. Now I’m really interested in how it plays out in real life and during sharpening.
P.S
I wrote a message without seeing what Huntsman said, but here you go: even a small percentage difference in weight distributes energy differently.But in reality:The thicker and heavier it is, the better it distributes energy!
Here's the story, I'll speak from a sharpening perspective.Short and to the point, no long tangents:
Technically, 3V is considered denser. Different steels have different densities and even weight per cubic centimeter (sorry, I'm from Europe, so you guys use inches, right?).For a clean test, I’d swap the handles on the Tyrants to be sure, because from my personal experience, carbon fiber (CF) dampens vibration really well.Also, try weighing them on kitchen scales—maybe they differ slightly in weight?But overall, based on sharpening or steel composition, it’s quite possible that Z-Tuff might absorb energy better.In a month, I’ll get my own Z-Tuff Tyrant and swap handles to test this. Your post really got me curious!I’ll check it myself, but I suspect G10 might be worse at dampening energy and vibration transmitted through the blade.But! It’ll be super interesting to test in person, because there’s often a scientific, numbers-based perspective and then real-world experience.
I have a Fell Beast in Z-Tuff, and when I hit really hard wood like hornbeam, oak, or even cinderblock, you can feel a slight “kickback” with the Fell Beast, but only if you swing really hard, full force. This is because the Fell Beast is fairly thin.Surprisingly, out of everything I own, my wakizashi with a 0.3-inch spine—thicker than the Tyrant—doesn’t absorb energy well. (Wakizashi absorbs Worse than the Tyrant, even though the wakizashi is thicker.) I think it’s just not a great blade overall.My Tyrant is in 3V right now, and I’ll try Z-Tuff when I get it.None of my blades absorbed energy from hard strikes on dry wood, cinderblocks, or metal pieces as well as this beast.
In theory, Z-Tuff might absorb energy better, but this characteristic is within a tiny margin, like a fraction of a percent.I’d swap the handles and test it that way to confirm the feel.This assumes Huntsman didn’t change something in the prototype, like BTE (behind-the-edge thickness), grind parameters, or something else.Physics plays a role here: the larger and thicker any material, the better it absorbs vibration.It’s quite possible this is true, especially in real-world use.
Here’s more: the sharpness of a blade can affect how impact and energy absorption feel.If one blade is sharper or duller, it can distribute vibration differently. Under a microscope, if your edge is slightly dulled or rolled, it might affect vibration distribution.
First thing I’d do in your shoes: swap the handles and confirm if G10 absorbs vibration worse than CF.Then, the cutting edge itself has a huge impact. Even a fraction of a degree difference in edge angle can change how energy is distributed through the blade. Believe it or not, a 0.2-degree difference per side (0.4 degrees total) can make a difference!
I said I’d keep it short, but this turned into a lecture...!No matter how well a blade is sharpened, you can’t make them perfectly identical. I use angle finders, micrometers, etc., and even on top-tier knives from the best makers, it’s normal to have one side at, say, 20 degrees and the other at 20.2, with slightly different grinds. Even machines have this margin of error.
It’s hard to say with absolute precision. Even your grip can affect it—haven’t you noticed that holding the handle lower feels like it transmits more vibration than gripping closer to the ricasso (near the choil)?There’s a chance one blade might be perfectly 18.0 degrees on both sides (though that’s unlikely unless Huntsman is a robot or a knife-making machine). More likely, one side is 18.0, the other 18.01–18.09, which is totally normal. Even 18.0 vs. 18.3 is fine—anything up to 18.4 degrees per side is within sharpening tolerance.
Now imagine that every Tyrant’s grinds or angles might differ by a fraction of a degree. This can affect energy absorption slightly.Plus, even identical steels can vary in hardness. For example, my blade might be 61 HRC, yours 61.3. This can affect sharpening and possibly energy distribution (I’m curious what Huntsman would say).
But! The fun part is, if you swap handles on your Tyrants, you might find that CF (carbon fiber) absorbs better.
Did you know that a cubic inch of one steel can weigh differently from a cubic inch of another steel?
But with Z-Tuff and 3V, the difference is within the margin of error, so I wouldn’t dwell on it.
I’d be curious to sharpen both blades to the same angle and test them with my own hands, with different handles. Now I’m really interested in how it plays out in real life and during sharpening.
P.S
I wrote a message without seeing what Huntsman said, but here you go: even a small percentage difference in weight distributes energy differently.But in reality:The thicker and heavier it is, the better it distributes energy!
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For example, I have a knife made of CPM-15V steel, and it’s quite thin. Its hardness seems to be around 65 HRC; when tested, it was even closer to 66.
Maybe it’s just my feeling, but when I’m whittling wood, due to the hardness, I can really feel the recoil from the cutting, stronger than with knives made of softer steel but with the same geometry!
I wonder, does steel with a hardness of 45-50 HRC distribute energy better than, for example, 60-65 HRC?
Maybe it’s just my feeling, but when I’m whittling wood, due to the hardness, I can really feel the recoil from the cutting, stronger than with knives made of softer steel but with the same geometry!
I wonder, does steel with a hardness of 45-50 HRC distribute energy better than, for example, 60-65 HRC?
Z
zaedion
I'll tell you more, in my sharpening experience, for example, with steels like ZDP-189, REX-121, Cowry-X, Maxamet, I've encountered some really interesting situations."The carbides have left the matrix."What I mean is, a brand-new knife, manufactured perfectly, suddenly cuts worse than some basic D2 steel or something like that. The cut feels "soapy," and the edge dulls extremely quickly.And all of this is because, for instance, on the cutting edge, regardless of the craftsman’s skill, there are simply no carbides or carbide matrix. Maybe the abrasive used was subpar, or something along those lines.When I re-sharpened the knife, removing just a tiny bit of the cutting edge—literally a negligible amount—the steel would return to the properties it was supposed to have!This is the kind of thing that can drive you absolutely crazy.You get a high-end, super expensive knife that just doesn’t hold an edge!In reality, it’s simply because, by some fluke, the carbides or the "carbide matrix" are missing.You re-sharpen it, remove that tiny bit, and the knife cuts like it’s supposed to.So, even with tough steels, it can happen that part of the cutting edge just needs to be "removed" by re-sharpening, and then it regains its proper qualities.Out of the many knives I’ve sharpened, this has been the most curious experience.You can literally "polish away" the carbides on high-end steels that are meant to cut and only cut, and the blade just doesn’t perform.But when you expose the carbides using an abrasive belt with diamond paste, the aggression of your knife becomes almost unbelievable.For example, when sharpening Z-Tuff on a Fell Beast using an abrasive belt with diamond paste, I noticed a curious cutting property, and under a microscope, it looked different too.
And here’s something else: I’ll make you worry about every single knife you come across next!The person who made the blade might have done everything perfectly, but the steel itself could be defective. As Hunter used to say, it might have "voids" or other issues.The knifemaker isn’t at fault at all, but your blade either won’t cut well, or the edge will chip, or worse, it might just break under impact.
And now, haha, I’ll drive you completely insane!Are you sure, for example, that your steel—pick any one—was delivered to the knifemaker with the correct composition? Maybe it’s lacking vanadium or nickel? Or maybe it has too much carbon?There are so many variables in all of this that, honestly, I have immense respect for people who make knives. Because, damn… you can do every single step 148 out of 100, but your steel might just be defective, and there’s no way you could’ve known!
This is what makes the sharpening process so fascinating. When sharpening, for example, a Tyrant or Fell Beast to a 0.5-micron finish, minimizing the micro-serrations on the cutting edge, at 400x magnification, you get a stronger cutting edge. In the context of chopping, for instance, it becomes more durable—not by a huge margin, but noticeably so, for example, as a skilled sharpener, you can optimize an over-hardened steel to prevent it from chipping on abrasive materials, ensuring stability while still cutting well.In reality, the process of sharpening, optimizing the geometry of the cutting edge, the BTE (behind-the-edge) thickness, different bevels, and so on—you just can’t imagine, my friend…For instance, by maximizing the cutting edge on a Tyrant or setting it to 20-21-22 degrees, I’ve noticed that the Tyrant becomes practically indestructible.
I'll tell you more, in my sharpening experience, for example, with steels like ZDP-189, REX-121, Cowry-X, Maxamet, I've encountered some really interesting situations."The carbides have left the matrix."What I mean is, a brand-new knife, manufactured perfectly, suddenly cuts worse than some basic D2 steel or something like that. The cut feels "soapy," and the edge dulls extremely quickly.And all of this is because, for instance, on the cutting edge, regardless of the craftsman’s skill, there are simply no carbides or carbide matrix. Maybe the abrasive used was subpar, or something along those lines.When I re-sharpened the knife, removing just a tiny bit of the cutting edge—literally a negligible amount—the steel would return to the properties it was supposed to have!This is the kind of thing that can drive you absolutely crazy.You get a high-end, super expensive knife that just doesn’t hold an edge!In reality, it’s simply because, by some fluke, the carbides or the "carbide matrix" are missing.You re-sharpen it, remove that tiny bit, and the knife cuts like it’s supposed to.So, even with tough steels, it can happen that part of the cutting edge just needs to be "removed" by re-sharpening, and then it regains its proper qualities.Out of the many knives I’ve sharpened, this has been the most curious experience.You can literally "polish away" the carbides on high-end steels that are meant to cut and only cut, and the blade just doesn’t perform.But when you expose the carbides using an abrasive belt with diamond paste, the aggression of your knife becomes almost unbelievable.For example, when sharpening Z-Tuff on a Fell Beast using an abrasive belt with diamond paste, I noticed a curious cutting property, and under a microscope, it looked different too.
And here’s something else: I’ll make you worry about every single knife you come across next!The person who made the blade might have done everything perfectly, but the steel itself could be defective. As Hunter used to say, it might have "voids" or other issues.The knifemaker isn’t at fault at all, but your blade either won’t cut well, or the edge will chip, or worse, it might just break under impact.
And now, haha, I’ll drive you completely insane!Are you sure, for example, that your steel—pick any one—was delivered to the knifemaker with the correct composition? Maybe it’s lacking vanadium or nickel? Or maybe it has too much carbon?There are so many variables in all of this that, honestly, I have immense respect for people who make knives. Because, damn… you can do every single step 148 out of 100, but your steel might just be defective, and there’s no way you could’ve known!
This is what makes the sharpening process so fascinating. When sharpening, for example, a Tyrant or Fell Beast to a 0.5-micron finish, minimizing the micro-serrations on the cutting edge, at 400x magnification, you get a stronger cutting edge. In the context of chopping, for instance, it becomes more durable—not by a huge margin, but noticeably so, for example, as a skilled sharpener, you can optimize an over-hardened steel to prevent it from chipping on abrasive materials, ensuring stability while still cutting well.In reality, the process of sharpening, optimizing the geometry of the cutting edge, the BTE (behind-the-edge) thickness, different bevels, and so on—you just can’t imagine, my friend…For instance, by maximizing the cutting edge on a Tyrant or setting it to 20-21-22 degrees, I’ve noticed that the Tyrant becomes practically indestructible.
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I won’t lie, I learned a solid chunk of the nuances about steel, geometry, steel composition, and defects in steel—stuff like that—from Hunter, constantly asking him questions. I knew a lot of things in theory and on paper, but Hunter shared a ton of practical insights and details with me. It’s really awesome to get information straight from someone who makes blades and works with steel. In fact, it’s these practical aspects and other things that I learned and improved my understanding of, thanks to Hunter. I really admire his approach.
(I’m pretty sure I’m often a bit of a pest,
with the huge number of questions or things I ask him about, but I literally always learn something new from him.)Probably one of the most fun and interesting interactions is what I learn from Hunter while chatting with you all on the forum. I’ve never received such attention to my sharpening hobby.
I’ve never received so much practical information as I have since discovering Hunter and his blades.