Question to Sal about CPM-D2

LorenzoL

LorenzoL

Joined
Mar 9, 2009
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Dear Sal, I have had knives with D2 blades in the past but I have never been a fan of that steel, that is until I bought a Military and a few Paras in CPM-D2.
Now, I do not know if it is your particular heat treat or if it is the CPM process, but I find CPM-D2 to offer the best compromise in terms of ease of sharpening and edge retention (it is just slightly behind M4, but then it is much more stain resistant).
So, what I would like to know is whether it is true that it is an experimental steel and that it will probably be discontinued by Crucible, and if so, do you still have some left to make another sprint run out of it?
 
Hi Lorenzo,

Crucible's powdered process did, IMO, improve the steel. I believe that the powdered process segregates the carbides into a more homogenous grain structure. As I understand, it was more of a experimental steel. I think we used up what we had on the Military and Paramilitary.

With Crucible's filing Chapter 11, it's hard to know what they will keep in the "knife steel line-up". Scott says they're have opportunities, but nothing has been decided as yet. I heard rumors that CPM-154Cm will no longer be made, but that the regular knife steels would be available.

We like working with Crucible and hope they come out healthy.

sal
 
Thanks, Sal. Great to know you take care of business even on Saturdays.
Time to make some sprint runs with exotic steels to support Crucible, I think (hope).
 
LorenzoL said:
Thanks, Sal. Great to know you take care of business even on Saturdays.
Time to make some sprint runs with exotic steels to support Crucible, I think (hope).
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Someone say S125V Military Sprint Run?? :D :D :D

I'd pay a very pretty penny for one of them. ;)
 
Someone say S125V Military Sprint Run??
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Josh, That steel was never more than an experimental run. One , maybe two heats at the most. The only one I know who might have some left is Phil Wilson, and he stated he was no longer going to work with it , IIRC, due to chipping, and it being so difficult to work with.

S110V, and 10V run hard produce nearly the same results but are easier to work with, and less prone to chipping out.

I still have a piece I'm going to make into a knife sometime. It's well down on my list of priorities though. Joe
 
The Mastiff said:
Josh, That steel was never more than an experimental run. One , maybe two heats at the most. The only one I know who might have some left is Phil Wilson, and he stated he was no longer going to work with it , IIRC, due to chipping, and it being so difficult to work with.

S110V, and 10V run hard produce nearly the same results but are easier to work with, and less prone to chipping out.

I still have a piece I'm going to make into a knife sometime. It's well down on my list of priorities though. Joe
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Don't worry, I know. :D

Personally I'd love to see more traditional steels used in the Military line. S30V is a great all around performer, but that D2 run opened up a whole new world in the Military model.
 
I was thinking maybe M4 with a coated blade, I cannot recall a Spyderco folder using that steel...
 
Until recently, I had little experience with D2 in either variant. Having used the standard D2 now for a little while, I can finally see why it has a strong fan base. I like it better overall than s30v. Hope Crucible keeps it around.
 
The Mastiff said:
JThe only one I know who might have some left is Phil Wilson, and he stated he was no longer going to work with it , IIRC, due to chipping, and it being so difficult to work with.
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He said the steel was flawed, he had three knives with cracks through the middle that showed up during finish grinding. He flexed my knife by hand & it broke in two. A lot of time & belts wasted. I so wish I could get a 125V blade. :(
 
Sorry to hear that Hardheart. I wasn't aware they were breaking like that. I imagine that would be discouraging. Spending the time and effort to work that steel, HT it, then find that bad of a flaw.

What are you going to get instead? S110V ? Joe
 
hardheart said:
He said the steel was flawed, he had three knives with cracks through the middle that showed up during finish grinding. He flexed my knife by hand & it broke in two. A lot of time & belts wasted. I so wish I could get a 125V blade. :(
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on the sample bare that phil sent me i had to grind round the cracks

that said after over a year of use i can say im not a fan of that batch

its hard on tools and sucks to work and getts dam hard but is chipy in every day use
also the way spyderco grinds after heat treat its no wander you have not seen a batch of blades in s125v from sal (we talked about how hard it was on tools last year at blade )

in truth im not even sure i need to try the s110 thats out
i think M4 or crueware would be a better try
(im lookin into them )
 
Butch, Crucible doesn't use the powder process on their cruware, which is just the old vascowear formula, IIRC. I believe carpenter makes a powder version, they call micro melt PD1 http://cartech.ides.com/datasheet.aspx?i=103&e=304&c=TechArt

Vascowear is a better steel in the ways I like than D2, though it pits like O1 . Tough as hell steel.
I don't know anybody who uses or carries bars of it though. I imagine you'd have to buy a large amount and wait a year or two.

Also note Carpenter, and Latrobe spec. steel company now have their own version of S90V, under different names of course. We might be seeing some of those in the future, you never know. Joe
 
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Mastiff and others , saw my name pop up here, have been away in Baja on a fishing trip so getting in to this one a little later. Maybe I can shed some light on the CPM 125 subject. I do have a supply, maybe enough for 20 or so knives. I had a run of bad luck with the last few blades I tried to make with it. As mentioned I had 3 out of five with cracks that were only discovered in the final finish work. After all that work, expended abrasives and all I just had to give up on committing to making any more knives with it until I figure out whether it is the steel or something in the heat treat process. In the meantime I also now have a pretty good supply of CPM S110V. I think I picked up the last available from the earlier heat that Kershaw obtained. I think at this point it is as good or maybe a tad better than the 125V. I have some blades of my own that are at RC 63/64 and edge holding is amazing and toughness even at that hardness is adequate for a medium use utility hunter. It is a pretty good bet that Crucible will not be making any more of this one in the near future given the chap 11 situation. I am going to make a few small utility types next couple of weeks with the 110V and will look into getting a few out there for testing to verify my own conclusions on how it works... On the CPM D2 I did make a few knives with this one as well. It is good stuff and I think an improvement over the original grade but I did not find it significantly better than CPM 154 to warrant making any follow up knives. Hardness was about the same and the additon of Moly in the 154 mix allows a little more carbide for wear... Phil
 
oops, late reply. I already have a 110V shallot. Also have S30/60/90V, 3V, CPM'd M4, 154, D2. Next will probably be 15V, emailing a maker about doing a blade swap. after that, maybe 1V, then productsfrom other mills.
 
Phil, I would hope at some point in the future S110V gets resurrected as even at RC60-62 it's a great steel, and IMO, a step up from S90V. I would love to try it at full hardness. I believe though that's getting close to the practical limits on stainless, high wear steels in the cutlery applications. Even if they get the steels with those high carbide fractions to be less prone to chipping & fracturing there are still a lot of knifemakers who won't touch it due to the time, and extra expenses of working these steels. Even finding heat treaters can be problematic.

You, Phil, have been one of the few to show the willingness to work with them.Most won't, even for extra money.

As far as S125V goes I guess it's more suited to cladding in high wear, corrosive environments than knives.

Even if there's no more S110V, there is still 10V, or A11 from other sources. It's got all
the performance I'll ever need. Likewise S90V, or the alternatives from Carpenter and Latrobe will still be available. Joe
 
Joe, Yes 110v is an improvement over 90V. The problem with 90V has always been the low obtainable hardness and high temp required for heat treat. 110v does require high heat but resulting hardness is in the 10v range. We can alsways get good steels from other mills but the best about Crucible is that they were always more than willing to help out the custom guys and provide material in dimensions we could use even with low quantities. I am optomistic that they will come out of this .. Phil
 
Thanx Phil. Always appreciate your input.

We've got a small amount of 110V coming and enough S35V for a Mule team run. I'm looking forward to good news from Crucible about continueing the exotic runs.

I too appreciate your willingness to "play" with the experimental steels.

sal
 
Sal, glad you got some 110V. I was hoping that when you get a few blades finished you will have a chance to do a CATRA test on one. I haven't tried S35V but would guess the addition of Niobium to that grade will be an improvement as well. Phil
 
Yumm.. I really starting to appreciate the Mule team concept. Thanks for catering to us steel junkies, er.. enthusiasts Sal!

Sal Glesser said:
Thanx Phil. Always appreciate your input.

We've got a small amount of 110V coming and enough S35V for a Mule team run. I'm looking forward to good news from Crucible about continueing the exotic runs.

I too appreciate your willingness to "play" with the experimental steels.

sal
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I really hope the first knife I have using S35VN has a spyderhole in it, not that there is anything wrong with Chris Reeve's kitchen knives but...
 
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