Questions about 1095 carbon steel

bladeprince

bladeprince

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Jun 12, 2006
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Tops has a couple of knives that I really like the looks of. I noticed that almost all of their knives are made of "1095 carbon steel". They claim an Rc rating of 58. I don't have any experience with this steel so was wondering about its performance, etc. It's not a stainless so does that mean it only "stains" easier or also rusts easier? I seems odd they they would make almost their entire line of knives from this steel. I wonder why.

Thanks for any info.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
First, the oversimplified answer. High carbon steels like 1095 are inherently sharper and tougher than ordinary stainless steels. For the price of a little maintenance, you get better performance.

Next, the in-depth answer: Joe Talmadge Steel FAQ
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368828
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Thanks, Esav. Read Joe's comment on 1095. Sounds like an above average performing knife steel. Maybe a little less than 154CM or D2 but much better than AUS-8A. I don't know if that's a reasonable comparison, but just trying to get an idea.

He also says that it rusts easily. Fortunately, I live in a dry climate (Colorado) so that that not too big of a deal. However, I'm wondering if I do wish to put a little oil on the blade (the knive I'm interested in isn't coated), would vegatable oil be OK. That way, if I want to cut up an apple, I know what I'm consuming.

Thanks again
 
What Esav and Joe Talmadge said. If the heat treat is accomplished properly, carbon steals, in general, hold their edge longer and are definitely tougher (less chipped edges, broken blades, etc). The traede-off is that carbon steel rusts much more readily than stainless or semi-stainless steel. That is why many carbon steel blades have a coating on them - it's a rust inhibitor. If you live in a dry environment, such as I do in New Mexico, you most likely won't notice any problems, unless you re-sheath the blade wet. Even in a humid environment, a carbon steel blade can be kept in tip-top condition with just a little care.
 
I prefer food grade mineral oil. You can get a bottle at the pharmacy. So non-toxic, it can be taken internally. :)
 
What Esav said. :thumbup:
When the heat treat is right,very few steels compare as favorably,IMO.:)

Doug
 
For an oil, I think veggie oil would be fine. You don't need much on the blade; a very thin coat will be fine. You simply want enough to keep water molecules within the air from condensing on the blade.

About TOPS knives themselves, I've read nothing but good. If you do a forum search, you'll find plenty of feedback on other board users' experience.
 
I just got another high carbon, fixed blade, knife. (Frost) I have had from the Grebers and Buck knives all the way up to a custom Randell. My grand father left me.

My one reason for going with high carbon knives despite there higher maintenance. Fire! Quarts and argots can be found almost everywhere. I learned as a kid how to make fire with the right (High Carbon) knife and the right rock. (Thank you Grand Pa).

I also find once the blade is set and sharpened right, it stays sharper longer and can take the same use as the more expensive knives. I do not abuse a knife.

When I go out and about I have 3 fixed blade knives, I carry. A 6" Maritnni, a 4" martinni and a 4" High Carbon camp knife. Be it a Mora, Frost or my pukka.

I'm old now, But in my young and dumb days. I can think of 3 times these High Carbon knives ability to make fire, has helped save my life!

I hope you give the High Carbon knives a chance and check the forums on survival on how to make fire!

Dill
 
Wow! All that great information. Thanks to all.

I'm getting old now too, Dill. Years of hunting in Colorado has given me plenty of time to put together a little survival kit in a fanny pack I AWALYS take with me. It saved my ass one time and I almost needed it a second. But I would still love to learn the knife/fire making method. Even though I can't do as much, I'm still interested in any type of outdoor survival tip. Playing with knives (buy, selling, using, the forum) helps me feel just a bit younger.

Esav, food grade mineral oil it is...thanks.

If anyone is interested, the knife I'm going buy is just the little Tops Coyote. Small, legally concealable.
http://www.topsknives.com/product_info.php?products_id=52

Thanks much
 
Although it's very environment dependant, the amount of maintenence high carbon steels required seems to be exaggerated somewhat. For example you mention cutting up apples. With my carbon Mora or Opinel I cut up apples all the time, then wipe the blade on my pant leg and sheath it. It's got the patina you'd expect from working with the acidic fruit but otherwise it's fine. No rust spots or anything. I wipe the blades down with water when I can though. Outside of that I do nothing special. Keep them sheathed and unoiled and they seem to do fine for me. I think as long as you take care not to leave the blade covered in anything nasty or store it somewhere excessively moist you'll have no problems. 1095 is a great steel, takes very clean, sharp edges with little effort and will hold them longer than many high name stainless steels I've used.
 
Trout Tamer said:
For an oil, I think veggie oil would be fine. You don't need much on the blade; a very thin coat will be fine. You simply want enough to keep water molecules within the air from condensing on the blade.

About TOPS knives themselves, I've read nothing but good. If you do a forum search, you'll find plenty of feedback on other board users' experience.
Click to expand...
I don't recommend vegetable oil - if you leave it for a week or two, it gets rancid and smelly.
I use WD40 (although it is smelly from the very start as well :)) but stays the same :). It may not be edible, but as I don't use litres of it :) I don't mind.


Vivi said:
Although it's very environment dependant, the amount of maintenence high carbon steels required seems to be exaggerated somewhat. For example you mention cutting up apples. With my carbon Mora or Opinel I cut up apples all the time, then wipe the blade on my pant leg and sheath it. It's got the patina you'd expect from working with the acidic fruit but otherwise it's fine. No rust spots or anything. I wipe the blades down with water when I can though. Outside of that I do nothing special. Keep them sheathed and unoiled and they seem to do fine for me. I think as long as you take care not to leave the blade covered in anything nasty or store it somewhere excessively moist you'll have no problems. 1095 is a great steel, takes very clean, sharp edges with little effort and will hold them longer than many high name stainless steels I've used.
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Well, just leave it for few minutes wet (wash the knife and lay it on the table for 5 minutes) and you will notice what is meant by need of maintenance :thumbup: :)


And what hasn't been mentioned yet - carbon steels, are PLEASURE to sharpen, unlike stainless.
 
1095 has been used for a very long time for knives and performes well. Don't try to keep the knife shiney ,let it develop a 'patina' which actually helps prevent rust .
 
I don't recommend vegetable oil - if you leave it for a week or two, it gets rancid and smelly.
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Good point, I hadn't thought of that. Fact is, it's so dry around here, I've never oiled my carbon blades, due to lack of need.
 
leatherbird said:
What Esav said. :thumbup:
When the heat treat is right,very few steels compare as favorably,IMO.:)

Doug
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.....I agree....probably those of us who like it are all over the age of 50....I think it might be becuse we grew up with dads and granddads who only had carbon knives....and we know how efficient a carbon blade can be.

-regards
 
huugh said:
Well, just leave it for few minutes wet (wash the knife and lay it on the table for 5 minutes) and you will notice what is meant by need of maintenance :thumbup: :)
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I've never had high carbon rust / patina from water alone.
 
The rust issue with carbon blades is way overblown.

Most of my family were Maryland eastern shore wateremen from the Choptank area. As a kid I worked summers on my grandads boat. Summer was crabbing, and winter was oystering. Watermen don't make alot of money and tools need to be good. On the boat the most popular knife was a Old Hickory butcher knife in a homemade sheath. Pocket knives were all carbon steel Schrades, Colonials, Camilus. Companies like Buck and Gerber were not on the horizon yet in the 1950's. Knives were used hard, but I don't recall any rusting away. Like it was said by another poster, we just wiped it off on the leg of our jeans or a bandana and put it away. Blades were usually a dark charcoal grey patina, exept for that bright edge that was given a lick on a stone after dinner.

I tried the stainless wonder steels in middle age, and went back to carrying the traditional knives I grew up with. With just half as much care as you would give a firearm, a carbon blade will reward you with a lifetime of good service. It does not need alot of care, just wipe it down now and then. These days I'm retired, but I do alot of fishing with my grandkids and I use knives like Opinels, Case and Eye-brand sodbusters in carbon steel, And even after gutting panfish with my sodbuster, I have no rust problems. I swish it around in the water to clean it off, and when I get home it gets wiped off and a shot of 3-in-1 oil in the joint.

Enjoy a carbon blade and don't worry about the rust thing. Contrary to what some may think, they don't rust away on you overnight.
 
Based on someone's suggestion (probably on this forum), I have begun to clean my carbon blades (Opinel, Old Hickory) well and then immerse them in vinegar to produce an even patina. I'm going to do it to my Schrades and various Scandinavian knives as well. Really like the results so far. Also, I recommend food grade mineral oil as well; it may also be sold by woodworking stores as "salad bowl oil", I think.
 
I will second what jackknife and others have said. The rust concerns are sometimes given too much attention. I live in Colorado also, and have only had a blade rust when put away wet. The beauty of 1095 was that it was surface rust, easily wiped off. Some of the "stainless" steels will develop deeps pits when they do rust. Anyway, in this climate, care is minimal. That means I pretty much don't even oil my blades (out of sloth), but will oil the pivots when I think about it. After about a year, they then require some care. Some will start a little surface rust, some will go straight to a patina, which I leave alone since I like it and it protects the blade. I use the mineral oil thanks to Esav, on the rare occasion I do need to coat a blade. If you are using it frequently (hunting, camping, etc.), and cut a high fat meat such as bacon, that's more than good enough. If you are caught out in the field with nothing, some famous makers have recommended pinching your nose at the top, running your fingers down your nose, and using the oil from your skin on your edge. The outside of your nose, of course! :D
 
bladeprince said:
Sounds like an above average performing knife steel.
Click to expand...

That is mainly due to how it is heat treated and especially by people like Top's who draw it in the embrittlement zone. 1095 is basically an example of the simplest steel as it is just iron and carbon. The level of carbon is quite high so it both has a high maximal hardness, 65/66 HRC after tempering, and a relatively high wear resistance. Specifically, 440C = 2, cold treated 1095 at 66 HRC = 4, M2 = 7. However 1095 is mainly used in relatively cheap blades and thus its performance is usually really low but don't judge the steel by that.

-Cliff
 
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