questions about southern grind bad monkey knife

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xAnarkx

Joined
Mar 16, 2015
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hi eveyone im new to the forum, how you all doing. thinking about getting a bad monkey, but because the somewhat unique shape I have no idea how my hand going to react to the ergonomic. I like x-18's ergonomic the best, also like most of the emerson ergonomic, but not so much for strider. since it look like a strider should i just let it pass? or does it feel more like an emerson or hinderer in hand? also is the the lock bar carbonized? anyone who had one please give me your 2 cents thanks
 
IMO they are much more like an Emerson than either an XM or Strider. Keeping in mind that they were designed with Emerson designs in mind, since Mr. Brown likes his knives very much, I suppose this should be surprising. I have one of the waveless G10 models so I can't speak to how well the CF Bad Monkeys waves, it feels very much like super-7's I have handled, but with a slightly deeper finger groove, to me. I don't believe the TI lock is carbidized, but I have not had any sticking issues.
 
thanks for the info, i also emailed southern grind and they told me this "Regarding the lock bar, the custom Bad Monkey is carbonized, but the original with the emerson Wave feature is not."
 
xAnarkx said:
thanks for the info, i also emailed southern grind and they told me this "Regarding the lock bar, the custom Bad Monkey is carbonized, but the original with the emerson Wave feature is not."
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IMO, it feels a bit like a mashup between an Emerson and a Sebenza in the hand. The ergos are very good but it doesnt "melt" in your hand like, say, an Emerson Commander. In regards to the lockbar, the CF/wave version is indeed not treated, though mine hasn't moved a millimeter since I got it (and it locks up at about 5%). I also emailed them when I first got the knife to see if it would be possible to replace it should it wear out. They told me that they would replace it for the cost of the part, which would be around $25. Useful info for anyone debating a purchase.

It's a great knife but don't believe the people that tell you the steel has some kind of "magical" heat treat that makes it act like a serious steel. It has the same edge retention as any Kershaw in the same steel. It's serviceable, but only a hair better than AUS-8 or quality 8CR13 and dramatically less than any CPM steel.
 
I'll respectfully disagree somewhat on the steel. True SG doesn't have a magic HT and it isn't in anyway close to any powder steel, but I have found that SG's 14C28N is noticeably better than Kershaw's. I'd say maybe a hair under VG-10, 2-3 hairs under 154CM in my (subjective) experience.
 
idk man sounds like this steel could be really great or really trash depend on which part of body hair you talking about.
 
I had one briefly...
The steel, while serviceable, is mid grade vs other options in the 225+ range
The waveless version maintains the wave ramp but removes the hook (takes away from the aesthetics)
The size isn't pocket friendly

Beyond the price, steel used and my opinion on the blade shape, it just feels like it's trying too hard to be an Emerson alternative and not enough focus on being original.

It did have a very smooth action and I liked the handle design... overall it IS a decent knife- just in the wrong price point IMO.
 
I think its a great knife, and kinda if feels like a "soft" Emerson, but I have cf, which is smoother of course. It waves nice cause if the blade size/heft, and I love how it fits my hand. Can be a bit big to pocket, but I prefer larger knives so I'm used to it. Fit and finish is superb, and my edge holds up as well as I'd want it to
 
I think the ergo's on it are very nice, as is the fit and finish, and quality. I haven't cut enough with it to need sharpening, but I can say the lock has moved very little, if at all, and it has been opened a bunch. Value is a subjective thing, but I think its worth the price, to me, for the quality of the final product (blade steel arguments aside) and service that you get. I like to support smaller companies, especially when the product is made in the US.
 
You can get and m390 bladed folder for about 120 bucks. The prices Southern Grind commands for their choice of steel, is IMO, asking a bit too much.
 
harkamus said:
You can get and m390 bladed folder for about 120 bucks. The prices Southern Grind commands for their choice of steel, is IMO, asking a bit too much.
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What M390-bladed folder are you talking about?
 
harkamus said:
Sorry. 129.99. Ritter RSK mk1. The knifeworks exclusive.
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Yeah but it's a Benchmade. Small companies like SG don't have the resources to buy bulk quantities of expensive steel. This is why you don't see CRK and most customs using super steel. The cost would be outrageous to buy, the steels difficult to process, which means means new tooling and increased amount of hours put into a final product that is ridiculously expensive. This is one reason why Jim Allen of Three Sisters Forge switched from M390 to S35vn.
 
harkamus said:
Sorry. 129.99. Ritter RSK mk1. The knifeworks exclusive.
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Ah I see. I'll give you that M390 is a better steel, but the issues arise in the rest of the knife,as well as the people who you are dealing with, like KOD mentions.

Sure, you can get a Ritter grip for $130 with M390...and plastic handles, mass-produced quality, and an overall size that is MUCH smaller than the Bad Monkey.
You have to take into consideration the fact that they put a TON of time into their knives to make sure they have the best fit and finish they can. Not as much as a custom knife will see, but much more than a regular production knife will in many cases.

You also have to take into consideration that, as much as I love it, M390 is not very field-serviceable. At least nor for the majorty of people. Sure, you can bring the stuff to do it, but you need much less time and effort to keep the edge on 14c28n, and it has amazing toughness. It rivals even Elmax for toughness from some testing I have seen, depending on the heat treatmetnt.
I have also seen it outlast Emerson's 154cm, though cutting geometry will also play a part in that. And lastly, it requires very little actual material be removed in order to keep a very nice edge. The blades will wear longer than most other ingot steels will in general, and it is very easy to maintian on a strop.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't LOVE to see a second version of the Bad Monkey in like M390, Elmax, or maybe even good old S35VN, but I am saying that I get their methodology in slecting the steel. Seems peole give them even more trouble for their shoice of steels than they do Emerson, althought certainly not as often. I personally feel that the 14c28n they use, the way they heat treat it, is better than Emerson's 154cm in most categories. Mainly because of the heat treat that Emerson uses and how soft they run their steel though. 154cm in general I find is very similar in holding an edge to Southern Grind's 14c28n.
 
L
Charr said:
Ah I see. I'll give you that M390 is a better steel, but the issues arise in the rest of the knife,as well as the people who you are dealing with, like KOD mentions.

Sure, you can get a Ritter grip for $130 with M390...and plastic handles, mass-produced quality, and an overall size that is MUCH smaller than the Bad Monkey.
You have to take into consideration the fact that they put a TON of time into their knives to make sure they have the best fit and finish they can. Not as much as a custom knife will see, but much more than a regular production knife will in many cases.

You also have to take into consideration that, as much as I love it, M390 is not very field-serviceable. At least nor for the majorty of people. Sure, you can bring the stuff to do it, but you need much less time and effort to keep the edge on 14c28n, and it has amazing toughness. It rivals even Elmax for toughness from some testing I have seen, depending on the heat treatmetnt.
I have also seen it outlast Emerson's 154cm, though cutting geometry will also play a part in that. And lastly, it requires very little actual material be removed in order to keep a very nice edge. The blades will wear longer than most other ingot steels will in general, and it is very easy to maintian on a strop.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't LOVE to see a second version of the Bad Monkey in like M390, Elmax, or maybe even good old S35VN, but I am saying that I get their methodology in slecting the steel. Seems peole give them even more trouble for their shoice of steels than they do Emerson, althought certainly not as often. I personally feel that the 14c28n they use, the way they heat treat it, is better than Emerson's 154cm in most categories. Mainly because of the heat treat that Emerson uses and how soft they run their steel though. 154cm in general I find is very similar in holding an edge to Southern Grind's 14c28n.
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Well done sir!
 
Charr said:
Ah I see. I'll give you that M390 is a better steel, but the issues arise in the rest of the knife,as well as the people who you are dealing with, like KOD mentions.

Sure, you can get a Ritter grip for $130 with M390...and plastic handles, mass-produced quality, and an overall size that is MUCH smaller than the Bad Monkey.
You have to take into consideration the fact that they put a TON of time into their knives to make sure they have the best fit and finish they can. Not as much as a custom knife will see, but much more than a regular production knife will in many cases.

You also have to take into consideration that, as much as I love it, M390 is not very field-serviceable. At least nor for the majorty of people. Sure, you can bring the stuff to do it, but you need much less time and effort to keep the edge on 14c28n, and it has amazing toughness. It rivals even Elmax for toughness from some testing I have seen, depending on the heat treatmetnt.
I have also seen it outlast Emerson's 154cm, though cutting geometry will also play a part in that. And lastly, it requires very little actual material be removed in order to keep a very nice edge. The blades will wear longer than most other ingot steels will in general, and it is very easy to maintian on a strop.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't LOVE to see a second version of the Bad Monkey in like M390, Elmax, or maybe even good old S35VN, but I am saying that I get their methodology in slecting the steel. Seems peole give them even more trouble for their shoice of steels than they do Emerson, althought certainly not as often. I personally feel that the 14c28n they use, the way they heat treat it, is better than Emerson's 154cm in most categories. Mainly because of the heat treat that Emerson uses and how soft they run their steel though. 154cm in general I find is very similar in holding an edge to Southern Grind's 14c28n.
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As always, Charr, it's hard to argue with your assessment on steel... I agree that 14c28n is much more serviceable and can easily be stropped to restore an edge vs having to remove tons of metal in other steels.

That said, I still have a hard time justifying a $250 14c28n Bad Monkey in the same way I can't justify a similar price for a D2 Brous. I get that smaller companies have higher costs associated and as a result have to use mid range steels to be at all cost effective, but the fact remains that better steels are available at that price point- be it from a large production company or not. In the case of Brous, I can at least say that their designs are unique, even if I don't find them practical, whereas Bad Monkey seems more functional but without the originality.

Ultimately, I cant justify the price tag when the value retention doesn't seem to be there. The few SGMB's I've seen second hand (including the one I sold) had a much lower dollar value associated due to the perceived value by the market. As someone that likes to try out new knives, with little to no access to see them in person, I'd like to know that my potential "rental fee" is minimal when I find a knife isn't for me.

All that said, the steel argument doesn't apply to a majority of people's uses so the 14c28n will serve most well & the fit and finish are top notch. My remaining arguments against are purely my opinions on aesthetics and relative value, so if you find it a good deal or it appeals to you, go for it
 
drrickso said:
As always, Charr, it's hard to argue with your assessment on steel... I agree that 14c28n is much more serviceable and can easily be stropped to restore an edge vs having to remove tons of metal in other steels.

That said, I still have a hard time justifying a $250 14c28n Bad Monkey in the same way I can't justify a similar price for a D2 Brous. I get that smaller companies have higher costs associated and as a result have to use mid range steels to be at all cost effective, but the fact remains that better steels are available at that price point- be it from a large production company or not. In the case of Brous, I can at least say that their designs are unique, even if I don't find them practical, whereas Bad Monkey seems more functional but without the originality.

Ultimately, I cant justify the price tag when the value retention doesn't seem to be there. The few SGMB's I've seen second hand (including the one I sold) had a much lower dollar value associated due to the perceived value by the market. As someone that likes to try out new knives, with little to no access to see them in person, I'd like to know that my potential "rental fee" is minimal when I find a knife isn't for me.

All that said, the steel argument doesn't apply to a majority of people's uses so the 14c28n will serve most well & the fit and finish are top notch. My remaining arguments against are purely my opinions on aesthetics and relative value, so if you find it a good deal or it appeals to you, go for it
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I really do agree there.

I will openly admit that I had a Southern Grind Bad Monkey, but don't anymore. Not because I don't like the knife, but because a friend of mine was more likely to really be able to appreciate it in his EDC. I actually liked the knife a lot, but I don't like having to maintain more basic steels in my EDC knives, thus why I prefer to carry knives in super steels.
I would rather sit down once every 2 months and sharpen them for a few hours than do it once every week for an hour. Just my preference though.

I will say that if I ever see the right one up on the exchange, I will probably get another one, just because it couldn't be beat as a companion to a concealed firearm if you ask me.

I can definitely agree with the perceived price issue with the steel as well. It's the reason I will never own an Emerson, even if my friends have (though they eventually all sold them anyway), and the reason I would only really go for a Brous if it was the perfect design. I will say D2 can go to some excellent heights with the right treatment, depending on the company that is producing it (which is almost always left out in specs), and I would really like to own a Brous/Turpin Strife since I likely won't ever own a custom version.

And then there is retention of value...yeah.
I don't like the way the market perceives the Bad Monkey. It really is a great knife, and is built to such a degree that I don't ever think it should really lose as much value as they seem to. It disappoints me, but it also means that anyone who wants to try one, and is willing to wait until one shows up, can do so without having to pay the "rental fee" (love that btw) for the knife, and without having any reserves about really using the knife like it should be since they have much less money in it than a new one.
The alternative to me is that, if I bought a new Bad Monkey from Southern Grind, I would have no reason to not use the hell out of it, because it's not like I have to worry about it losing value.

Now, that being said, I usually EDC a Shirogorov (one of 2 I own right now, of 10+ I have owned overall), so you can see that I have a tendency to go ahead and spend what I need to in order to get the knife that I want. I will say that I will NEVER own one of the Shirogorov models in S30V though.
I have seen several customs that highlight this issue to me as well. A knife will go up on the exchange with a $2000 price tag, and S30V steel...sorry, no.
I think that, in comparison to that, the price for the Bad Monkey with the 14c28n is negligible for the vast majority of people, and those that really use the knife, like you said, will never have a problem with it.
And I look at the Bad Monkey and Southern Grind in general as a part of a progression. They are like the Chris Reeve Knives of their portion of the market. Sure, the steel they use is not superb at edge retention, and they make some choices in their designs that are a little weird, but they make their knives to a standard above what other companies in their price range are doing. CRK uses S35VN treated rather softly as well, but I certainly understand why they do it, and I have a Sebenza 25 in my collection forever for a very good reason.
Once you go above the level of CRK, you still see this a lot in other price ranges as well. And yes, and argument can be made that Brous is a similar type of product. Tom Mayo customs also definitely come to mind. As do some Shirogorov models that use steels like 440C, Carindu, and S30V.
But they all sell well, and there are very good reasons to the people who buy them.

We seem to think we need much more steel than we really do. I could probably get by in my EDC with some well-done 1095 or 440C if I needed to, but like I said, I choose to spend more on a steel (and mainly a design) that requires much less everyday maintenance, just for my own preference. That's why I play around with as many steels as I can.
There is a price threshold, above which I will not pay a certain amount for a certain steel, but that is often because I do not actually like the steel in question in general, and I view it as a little lesser of an overall product in general (looking at YOU S30V ;))

At the end of the day though, you are definitely right. If a person likes the knife, and is willing to pay the money for what they get, then all the more power to them. That is the great thing about our hobby :D

Phew...need to take a break from all this typing. My fingers are sore ;) :D
 
good read, charr! totally agree on S30V btw ESPECIALLY on a $2k Shirogorov :eek:
and yeah I'm totally guilty of wanting steel that outweighs (most of) my regular needs... speaking of, I blame you for my weekly Vanax searches :D
 
Charr--Though I only own the lowly Bionic, I think Brous does an excellent job with D2. D2 is one of my favorite steels because it has a good combination of wear resistance, toughness, and is almost stainless. Its easy to service too.

I also agree about S30V. My least favorite of the steels I've owned.
 
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