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Questions for those who use Talonite knives

F

Frantium

Joined
Mar 25, 1999
Messages
526
When can we safely say that a Talonite blade is dull? What kind of edge do you get before you start thinking to resharpen the knife, excluding blade chippings or deformations? The reason I ask is because my Blackwood Tactical Talonite edge is now all shiny and won’t shave, noticeably slick, but for any other task it’s still good. I resharpened it twice, thinking that it was dulled. At this point it is ‘duller’ than it was, but functionally it is still good. Now I’m not so sure anymore. Does anybody know what I’m talking about?

From the last time I resharpened it, I have:

1. shredded 6 computer case boxes (30”x25”x14”) with 1/4” wave cardboard walls (I said shredded because I intentionally cut into little pieces about 1/2” wide)
2. skinned two 15 lbs lambs, cut the meat into approximately 1”x1”x1” cubes (in case you’re wondering we were making satay)
3. little tasks like whittling bamboo sticks, opening boxes, cutting through thick canvas, ropes, etc.

One other question: I noticed when the first time I resharpened my knife using a Sharpmaker 203, it seemed like the burr was just moving from one side to the other, on and on. However it's not like the usual soft burr, bur rather like a tough one. It took me longer to remove the burr than say when I resharpen an ATS-34 knife. I didn’t try using strop though. Why is this? Is it because of the low Rc? The second time I resharpened it, I used medium DMT stone, and it was easier to remove the burr.

One question for Cliff Stamp: when you steel the Talonite knife, do you notice any different behavior from when you steel other knives? Is it easier or more difficult to align the edge?

I apologize if these have been covered before, but I did a search on Talonite along with MDP Talonite page, and I came up with too many threads, and so far I have only read a few. If you know a thread or two that covers these, please provide me with the links.


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Reynaert
 
although i make the things, i am sure others can give a more detailed analysis of your problem cause they are a lot more fanatical about the using part than i am, which is a very good thing...but i think the burr thing is because the metal is softer behind the burr, and so it doesnt want to break off like in a harder steel, and as for when its dull, well i gotta tell you that because i do what i do and have the machines i have, my knives never ever start to think about getting dull, so cant help you there...sorry.

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http://www.mayoknives.com


 
Reynaert,
I would try to create the smallest burr possible along one side of the edge. Stone one side utill a small burr is raised, then roll it back over from the other side. At this point, I would use a leather strop with either green or browm polish to remove the burr.
At any time I would be glad to put the "factory" edge back on the knife at no charge.
Neil

------------------
Blackwood Knives
More knives in stock soon!
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Neil,

I'm not complaining at all about my Talonite knife. On the contrary I'm satisfied, it's just the it's-time-to-resharpen threshold has moved somewhere. I mentioned that the knife is still good for any other task while it won't shave anymore, meaning doesn't shave = sharp. I did this (leaving it without resharpening) intentionally, as I'm curious as to what others have said, that dull-but-not-dull state. I'm just curious as to when will other users resharpen their Talonite knives as the typical physical appearances are not a good measurement for edge sharpness. Now I know 'physical appearances' are not good measurements, but it's just so different with Talonite.

As for the sharpening I've done, creating the burr was not at all difficult. The problem is getting rid of it. I'll try stropping next time I resharpen it.

This knife is a user (meaning I use it a lot)and there's no chance I will return it to you for resharpening
smile.gif
, but thanks for the offer.

------------------
Reynaert
 
Frantium :

When can we safely say that a Talonite blade is dull?
Click to expand...

This has the same answer as the more general question "When can we safely say that a blade is dull." which is when it no longer cuts what you want it to with the effort that you would like it to take.

This is very sensitive to what kind of things you are cutting. A knife can have a very worn down edge and if the basic profile is right you will notice little effect on some materials. For example when I was evaluating my custom light utility hunter from Phil Wilson after I blunted it on a car mat I could run my finger down the edge, yet I could still used it to prepare my lunch with no problems.

What kind of edge do you get before you start thinking to resharpen the knife
Click to expand...

As soon as the razor edge is gone I sharpen it as it will no longer cut objects that are not dependent on the profile but the very edge. These are things like light cord, plastics, fabrics and such. The Talonite blade I have has very little length and I use it for more precise work and I want to be able to do that with little or no pressure for reasons of control and security.

I noticed when the first time I resharpened my knife using a Sharpmaker 203, it seemed like the burr was just moving from one side to the other, on and on. However it's not like the usual soft burr, bur rather like a tough one. It took me longer to remove the burr than say when I resharpen an ATS-34 knife. I didn t try using strop though. Why is this? Is it because of the low Rc? The second time I resharpened it, I used medium DMT stone, and it was easier to remove the burr.
Click to expand...

The diamonds will cut much more aggresively into the Talonite than the ceramic will. It could be that the higher pressure on the Sharpmaker rods combined with the lower cutting ability is making it deform rather than grind metal away. Note as well that the longer you go between sharpenings the worse burrs will form as the steel gets progressively weaker as you use it. Try steeling a blade for a long time and then grinding it and then don't steel it at all and sharpen it the very next time it dulls.

when you steel the Talonite knife, do you notice any different behavior from when you steel other knives?
Click to expand...

It tends to respond better to steeling. I have blunted my Talonite blade several times as compared to a few knives and the Talonite blade unless overstressed will usually come back faster and show more improvement with just aligning work, the steels often need some grinding. I assume this is because very little Talonite is being worn away because of the high wear resistance. This is a fair amount of detail on this in the MEUK review which is in progress :

http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/knives/MEUK.html

I intend to compare it to some of my more wear resistance steels once I get enough material as they take a lot to blunt. I will also be looking at it for long term edge holding to see if it strongly pulls away from blade steels in that respect.

-Cliff




[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 02-18-2000).]
 
Cliff,

Yes, it is obvious that the diamond cuts the Talonite more aggresively, that was why I used it the second time around. I'm sorry I wasn't clear about that. About the Sharpmaker deforming the Talonite, that is my current conclusion. The interesting part is that the burr was considerably tougher than the burr I get when I sharpen stainless steel knives. Like you said it could also be caused by the Sharpmaker (I use the black rods) having lower cutting ability. So I think what I had was a rather thick burr instead of the usual very thin burr of stainless steel knives. I assume this has something to do in part because of Talonite resistance to abbrasion to some degree. Thanks for the confirmation. I'll try steeling next time.

BTW, nice review on the Talonite MEUK. Looking forward to seeing the long term review of the Talonite.
 
hope i didnt sound condescending in my post above...i just have a lot of equipment and i buff my knife every time i use it...i got this email yesterday....from Germany "Wim usde his Talonite knife to clean a yearling boar last saturday and he showed me the Mayo Talonite knife that he used for the skinning, He said it went thru the breastbone like a hot knife thru butter. I tested the edge yesterday when he visited me and its still shaving sharp." then some other bs about how great i am that im sure no one except me is interested in...but the bottom line is the stuff works GREAT!!!

------------------
http://www.mayoknives.com


 
Reynaert,
I just wanted you to be aware that a re-sharpen is always availble. I have seen many times were the original edge geometry is changed from sharpening with the hand stones.
Sometimes this is hard to get back.
In addition to sharpening the blade I would also be restoring the original angle. At the same time I could remove any scratches, or beauty marks from the rest of the knife!!!

Walt,
Thanks for the compliments
smile.gif
I realy appreciate it. I read that to my wife and she said my hat would no longer fit!!!

Cliff,
Steeling the edge sounds like something I would like to experiment with on the Talonite. Could you recommend a good one?? I'm thinking of trying a round piece of carbide (1/4"Dia.)??

Thanks Guys,
Neil



------------------
Blackwood Knives
More knives in stock soon!
http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Meeting/5520/index.html

[This message has been edited by Dr.Lathe (edited 02-18-2000).]
 
Tom,

I'm sure that everyone else is interested in those BS, and I'm sure that you're great and all that
tongue.gif
. I'm almost sure that the Talonite will have its own era soon.

Neil,

Again thanks for the offer, I'll call you when my knife needs to see its Maker. I don't really care about beauty and all, but I do care about edge geometry, so... probably someday. By the way, how did you satin finish that thing, I believe it was a PITA? There are some spots which are shiny now from Kydex wear along with some scratches. Now I don't mind the scratches (add a certain degree of character), but not shiny spots! Not a big deal though as like I said it's a user. The only thing which will stop me from using it is the dangerous thought that it is Blackwood Tactical Talonite #1.

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Reynaert
 
Reynaert,
Actually hand rub finishing the Talonite is not bad at all. I would say it's not easier than my D2 blades but the finish seems to come up faster?? I can't realy explain it other than that!! I finished your knife with 400 wet or dry. A few light strokes will remove the shiny spots on the blade. I glue the 400 to tongue depressors for a flat surface.
YES you have #1 Medium Hunter/Tactical Talonite!!! But go ahead and keep using it!! If for some reason my knives EVER appreciate we can work out a deal
smile.gif

Neil

------------------
Blackwood Knives
More knives in stock soon!
http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Meeting/5520/index.html

[This message has been edited by Dr.Lathe (edited 02-19-2000).]
 
Hi, I just want to react to Tom Mayo's email in which he said:

"...i got this email yesterday....from Germany "Wim usde his Talonite knife to clean a yearling boar last saturday and he showed me the Mayo Talonite knife that he used for the skinning, He said it went thru the breastbone like a hot knife thru butter. I tested the edge yesterday when he visited me and its still shaving sharp."

Tom, Wim and I live in HOLLAND and not Germany and it's true the blade that wim used to skin and cut up that yearling boar still was shaving sharp.

Then you say:

"then some other bs about how great i am that im sure no one except me is interested in...but the bottom line is the stuff works GREAT!!! "

I checked my email to you and I could not find any mention about me saying your are GREAT
wink.gif
.
But one thing I can tell you you make some nice knives with great attention to details and still at an affordable price (do I get a discount now?
biggrin.gif
).

So because my wife is not near the screen and because you probably like to hear it:
Tom I think you're a GREAT knifemaker!!
smile.gif
smile.gif


Well my knife must have at least become $50 cheaper by these kind words.

Keep making these nice Talonite knives,

Greetings from HOLLAND (Not Germany!)

Bagheera


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[This message has been edited by Bagheera (edited 02-19-2000).]
 
Bagheera; stop whining!! How many times has Hercule Poirot had to point out he is from Belgium, not France!

Seriously, the dutch people did one of the bravest things of any country, ever, IMHO. When the British Expeditionary Force was holding the left flank of the allied lines during the Nazi invasion of France and the lowlands, the dutch fort at Eben Emael, expected to hold out about a week, fell in less than 24 hours, exposing the right flank of the BEF. The dutch people initially actually helped the Wehrmacht soldiers up out of the canals, thinking that what was going on was just an maneuver.

When the Dutch realized that they were being invaded, and also realized that the premature fall of Eben Emael would doom the BEF, the dutch opened the gates on the dykes and flooded their country, allowing the BEF to retreat to Dunkirk. The dutch did this, knowing that there would be reprisals. Knowing that they may be under german rule for a long time, possibly forever. Knowing that it takes generations to get the salt out of the arable land.

Bagheera (Piet Henskens) sent me a Delft tile from his family home, which was so badly shot up during the german invasion that the house had to be rebuilt. The tile is older than the USA is. That tile, damaged as it is, is one of my most prized possessions. I hope to tour Eben Emael this year with Piet and a friend of his, who is a tour guide there.

Piet is a resident of the Netherlands. He is not a german; he is dutch. Walt
 
ok...im busted...i took a little poetic license...sorry....but truely...like it was said above....I did not mean to offend you, you said the pig was KILLED in germany, and to this slow witted knifemaker, germany, belgium, austria, and yes holland, are all in about the same place....sorry. tom

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http://www.mayoknives.com


 
Neil :

Steeling the edge sounds like something I would like to experiment with on the Talonite. Could you recommend a good one?? I'm thinking of trying a round piece of carbide (1/4"Dia.)??
Click to expand...

That would do it alright. Razor's Edge sells a couple of models that are nice. I have the folding version as it is trivial to always have it on me.

-Cliff
 
As an update on the burr question, last night I reground a few blades on the Edge Pro Apex and noticed that the Talonite one was burring badly. It was interesting, when I flipped the blade over, I could feel the first stroke being very rough as it ground the burr off. It got smoother after that. As I moved up the finishes the burr got smaller and smaller. It disappeared at the 2000 grit polishing tape.

I have never seen this with benchstones, even the soft Japanese waterstones. All I can figure is that the Apex puts much more pressure across the edge and is folding it over. It should be possible to eliminate this by not bearing down on the hones, but if you don't do this it is slow going as the surface area of the stones is rather small. You could also sharpen as normal, pressing hard and then once you get to the finish you want, adjust the angle up a few degrees and microbevel the very edge very lightly.

-Cliff


[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 02-23-2000).]
 
Cliff,

All I can figure is that the Apex puts much more pressure across the edge and is folding it over.
Click to expand...

That's what I was trying to convey. And why is this, do you think? Low Rc?
 
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