Questions for Winter Campers

Dantor

Dantor

Joined
Dec 14, 2006
Messages
1,350
I've been doing some backyard camping, when it gets cold (under 20's F) testing some gear, finding out what I need, would like to have. I'm getting ready for some Lower Mountain (Mt Rainier) camping soon and I was wondering, do you take your boots/shoes off when you go to sleep?
Mine do keep my feet warm and the other day it got to the middle teens and I was glad I had them on!

Also, for winter camping, is a 3-4 season tent a good idea, for camping in temps in the teens to 20's (f) or do you recommend/use a dedicated 4 season one, with no screens, with the full covering rain flies. I'll be winter camping in temps no lower then the single digits and up. (no colder)

I'm seriously looking at the Eureka K2 xt (waiting for a sale) but I don't think I'll be able to use it in warmer weather. I also like the Sierra Designs Stretch Dome tents, also screenless (they are on sale). I like the idea of a 3-4 season tent but think having windows/screens is a bad idea in the winter, even though the fly covers them up. Any advice, suggestions would be appreciated.
 
YOu strip down to base layers at most. Change into dry socks, put a chemical handwarmer into the toe of the socks. Put on a winter hat. Make sure you have ample ground insulation. Shelter type is less important than ground insulation and wind blockage. A tarp will do.

Eat high fat and calories before bed and get warm by moving before you get in the bag.

If you are cold with this you need a better sleeping bag.

FYI I use a Sil Nlyon tarp only all year round and well below zero. toasty warm when its sealed down to the ground.

Skam
 
What SKAM said...

The tent ratings have more to do with wind/snow load. All tents must vent to keep condensation from building on the inside. If you don't have a good/sturdy tent and a snow storm moves in - you could be in trouble. I've seen crappy tents break apart in wind/rain storms.

More important then tent (for warmth) is sleeping bag and closed cell pad between you and ground. In addition to what Skam said, i like to boil water and put in nalgene and put that in my bag. You will want ALL of your water in your bag with you so it does not freeze.
 
I remove all the clothes from the day, put on a pair of nylon "sleeping" shorts, a pair of fresh wool socks (Smartwool - feels nice without liners), and a loose-fitting stocking cap.

In the midwest a 3-season tent with a full fly will do just fine in the winter - though with a very heavy snow this might involve removing snow to prevent overloading the tent. If heavy winds were expected I'd certainly put storm guylines on. Not sure how the winds are where you're camping.

My favorite tent right now is the Alps Mountaineering Taurus Outfitter w/ aluminum poles, full fly, no pole sleeves!, two doors, and two vestibules. Comes in three sizes. I got the 5 person one through their Scouter discount program (I'm an asst. scoutmaster -45% off!!). GREAT tent!!!!!

http://www.alpsmountaineering.com/ALPSMountaineeringTaurusOutfitter.htm

Ken K.
 
I have a couple things to add.

Bring a pee bottle. Be sure it resembles none of your other water bottles. Your body wastes a lot of energy keeping a full bladder warm and getting out of your tent at night sucks.

Try the hot jello. Put one package of jello in a one liter Nalgene, fill with hot water and drink at night. Don't mistake it for your pee bottle!

I wouldn't wear my boots at night. Might restrict your circulation. Maybe bring some down booties.

I have a couple Outdoor Research insulated bottle carriers for my Nalgenes. Camelbak tubes freeze too easily. Sometimes I blow the tube clear but the valve can still freeze up.
 
ilbruche said:
I have a couple things to add.

Bring a pee bottle. Be sure it resembles none of your other water bottles.
Click to expand...

LOL - and make sure you don't spill it inside your down sleeping bag!!!! My buddy told me his partner did that in the early stages of climbing Denali!!! what a mess.
 
In my opinion, if you are sleeping in anything more than your thermal underwear then your sleeping bag is not good enough. I don't sleep in socks or hat, but that's just me. Ground insulation is extremely important (thermarest/ensolite). If you are out for more than a day or two, you have to be very conscious of keeping your sleeping bag dry. If you combine a vapour barrier liner with a goretex bivy sack (or use a bag with a goretex/dry loft outer material) your bag should stay relatively dry (goretex is far from perfect, but there isn't much better out there), but it should still be left in the sun whenever possible. Down is warmer and lighter, but the synthetic is a better insulator when damp. In my opinion spend as much money as you can afford on a good sleeping bag, and don't pay much attention to the temperature ratings. It is better to buy an extremely warm sleeping bag that is baffled and you can move the insulation around within the bag depending on just how cold it is.

A good three season tent will do fairly well in the winter too, but look for ventilation that is controllable, a lot of 2-3 season tents have permanent mesh ventilation without flaps, best to get a 3-4 season tent with mesh windows, but with flaps that will cover the mesh and allow you to control your ventilation. Ventilation is critical to keeping the tent dry inside.

A four season tent is great if you are planning to be in and around lots of snow as they are designed to bear a fair weight of snow. If you are not planning to be moving around a lot (i.e. day hikes from a base camp) and there is a lot of snow, I would take a snow shelter any day over a tent (the downside to this is the amount of time it takes to build one). It is always a good idea to carry a good quality avalanche shovel/snow saw for building a quonset/igloo, or even just for shoveling snow up around your tent to insulate and block the wind.

I use a Marmot Snow Goose bag and either a North Face Bullfrog (3 season) or North Face VE-25 (4 season) tent.
 
If your feet suffer from cold then you could try some fleece or down booties or failing that fasten up your puffa jacket etc and pull that up over the foot end of your sleeping bag !!!
 
pitdog said:
If your feet suffer from cold then you could try some fleece or down booties or failing that fasten up your puffa jacket etc and pull that up over the foot end of your sleeping bag !!!
Click to expand...

And wrapping your feet in a fleece sweater works well too.

Skam
 
mckrob said:
In my opinion, if you are sleeping in anything more than your thermal underwear then your sleeping bag is not good enough.
Click to expand...

It depends on who you ask. I personally prefer to take a sleeping bag that will handle the average temperature that I expect on the trip, and add more layers if it is not sufficient. I usually sleep in my clothes (minus shoes, shell pant, and shell jacket) to save weight and space on the sleeping bag. Not to mention that I can just roll out of the bag at night or in the morning and not have to worry about dressing and undressing each time. Some people are not comfortable sleeping in their clothes, but I have way too much merino wool, so it is nice and comfy for days straight. :)
 
Insulation from the ground is as important as your sleeping bag. Dont put your face inside the bag, your breath will condense in the bag.
 
if the camping budget can take it, get an Exped Downmat and enjoy the snooze. I have the deluxe, which is 26 inches wide and I sleep like a baby.
 
Some really nice tips here all, thank you :)

I just got a thermarest ridgerest deluxe pad (closed cell) and I'm glad. I've learned a lot about sleeping bags in the past year, I'm fine there.
I won't be doing backpacking camping this year, so I can take some heavier gear. I can sleep in my clothes no problem but I will get some warm booties or such, good idea's.
 
Sleeping bags are not designed to wear clothes in. you can actually be colder with clothes on than not. Has to do with compressed insulation and minimal dead air to warm up.

Skam
 
skammer said:
Sleeping bags are not designed to wear clothes in. you can actually be colder with clothes on than not. Has to do with compressed insulation and minimal dead air to warm up.

Skam
Click to expand...

Huh? I could understand if you are wearing some huge insulated down parka and pants, but I am talking about a couple of layers of merino, polyester, or something similar that would add very little overall volume to your body size. How are clothes any different than a sleeping bag liner?

The compressed insulation is a problem on the bottom of the bag most of the time, which is why several high end bags come with little to zero insulation on the bottom since it is a waste of material and weight.

You are right about the dead air though. I always have to stop people from buying the tall bags at work when they don't need them. They want the extra leg room or something. They don't realize that that extra dead air needs to be warmed by their body and insulated by the bag, which can greatly reduce the effectiveness of a sleeping bag. The bag should be snug. I saw an ad in backpacker magazine recently for a bag with stretchy material, so it would always be snug and could stretch to accommodate whatever position you want to sleep in. Pretty nifty. They also had an ad for a pad with Aerogel (least dense solid known to man, super light, great insulator), which is just awesome.
 
storl said:
Huh? I could understand if you are wearing some huge insulated down parka and pants, .
Click to expand...

That is whatI am talking about not some base layers. I have seen this done many times. If you bulk up with clothes it displaces the dead air you need to warm and will compress the insulation. Dead air is a balance of too much and too little. This is why fitting a bag to your size is important.

Skam
 
I usually wear fleece pants and a light jacket and hat in my bag. The loft of your bag is enough to keep you warm. My warmest bag is a 15 degree down bag with a dryloft shell. I have an old moonstone down liner I bring when it's really cold. Even in the White Mountains in February I wasn't cold with that set up. A good pad is essential. I think I brought two of them on that trip. If you talking super cold weather a VBL is nice to have.
 
ilbruche said:
I If you talking super cold weather a VBL is nice to have.
Click to expand...

I used one last weekend 10 below in a medium 3 season bag and was toasty.

They can get real hot and you need a change of baselayers but work well.

Skam
 
Yea what everone else said sweaty feet = cold feet in the middle of the night.

Change into some new socks and your good to go. One thing i do is bring a pair of crocs to walk around in at at camp. After a day ofhiking my feet dont want to be in boots anymore. They are real light and let you keep your socks on unlike flip flops once you get over the goofiness factor.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top