Questions on stabbing and cutting

I've just bought my first folding knife, a delica, and I have been trying to think of creating a "structure" for its use.

However, because of my background, I tend to think of everything in terms of boxing. I have been practicing the draws and opening with either hand, but it still feels quite slow to me. I take about one and a half seconds to get the knife into a usable position. During that time, I could probably cover some distance and punch somebody in the head at least 3 or 4 times. So is it too slow?

I was thinking of using a jab motion with the delica as the initial move to cover distance(if necessary),maybe to stab the weapon limb, then go into a cut(easier at closer range), along with a trap(on the weapon limb)using my free hand.

It would be something like a jab in boxing to cover the distance, then a rear hand strike(the trap),then a hook(hard cut)from the front(knife)hand.

Am I going in the right direction?

To me, MA has always been about speed, distance, timing and feinting. I assume this must apply to knife-usage also.

Can I receive some valuable insights from the highly-trained fellows in this forum?

Best wishes from SYK
 
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EDGE1

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you would be better off finding some kind of instruction with a good teacher in this style if you cant go to video.what your saying isnt bad but need to work on everything including footwork and such!
 
Firstly, boxing is popular in the Philippines which has produced some Olympic medalists in the lightweight and featherweight classes.

SYK, your plan isn't bad. I just recommend you have another strategy if your first doesn't work or comes short.

Stabbing a limb is done by advanced folk at medium to short range and depending on grip, not necessarily a full power shot.
 
I would second Donna´s opinion. Try to attack the attacking limb by slashing, it does more structural damage as it cuts tendons and muscle. Read Bram Frank´s article on biomechanical cutting in To The Point magazine at this site. If you do the initial cut to weapon arm right, the limb will be useless and the weapon on the ground. I would use stabs for vital targets: Eyes (maybe into the brain, but not with your Delica), kidneys, stomach, thighs to immobilize. Of course stabbing is a useful way of defending as well. Practice everything, try to flow from cutting into stabbing and back. You can do every angle as a cut or stab. And practice drawing, you will get faster with time.

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"Peace is not without conflict; it is the ability to cope with conflict" - Leo Giron
 
Syk,
Try working out with a rubber trainer on a heavy bag. It will give you a familiar environment and help to put power in your slashes and stabs.
I also shadow box with a trainer to add speed and creativity (Flow) to my moves.
 
Thanks very much for all your informative replies.

I agree that it would be better to cut the weapon limb rather than stab it, but actually I did not express myself clearly the first time, my idea was to stab the weapon limb first because it can be done fast, then when the distance is closed, to cut the weapon limb. The main aim is to cut, because that's the "stopping" move.

I don't know anything abt using knives, but I'm quite sure that it takes much longer to cut than to stab, also I think it is easier to cut at a closer range than to stab, which can be done at a longer range.

Is it really possible to make the first move a cut? Wouldn't it be a bit too slow?

I'll be looking to get some videos on this, but our video format here is I think is different from the US. I prefer books, but wherever the instruction is good.

I also have noticed that the hump over the hole of the delica makes it very easy to throw out a jab with the knife, because you put your thumb behind it and it sort of orients your hand nicely for a jab. Is this one reason why people like the delica/endura so much as a self-defence weapon?

On a lighter note, an interesting crime was committed in my neighbouring country Malaysia(a few hours drive away)recently, you may have read abt it in your news. These people dressed up as soldiers and hijacked more than a hundred M-16s, plus some large machine guns out of a military camp. Makes you laugh. It is said they will work on stealing a submarine next.

That's why I have to carry knives when I drive up into Malaysia.

Once again, thank you for all your replies. I really appreciate the effort put in to all your replies.

Best wishes from SYK
 
Watch out for your thumb, SYK. One of the drawbacks of saber grip is that your thumb is in tight contact with the blade (handle, guard, or the hole hump in your case). You can easily hurt your thumb when you stab into a hard object. I recall an article by a Seal vet in an old issue of Fighting Knives (or was it Full Contact?). That guy broke his thumb while connecting hard in a saber grip stab. He then switched to hammer grip as his preference
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"Peace is not without conflict; it is the ability to cope with conflict" - Leo Giron
 
If you hold your pocket knife with your thumb behind the gaurd not only can you break it simply by thrusting into somthing hard like a belt buckel , but the blade under the thumb can act like an anvil if you get cut or smashed by someone who goes over the top. Another thing is that this is a weaker grip compared to say the hammer grip when it comes to knife retention, because the thumb is not wrapping around the fingers. Where as the thumb can be peeled off which will open the hand much with much less effort in the saber grip. Put simply, its harder to open a closed fist.
Just for ****s and giggles try holding the endura blade up in a hammer grip for close in work , point or edge. With proper wrist movement and body position I think you will find it has certain strengths over other meathods. The most important is that you cut on the pull, back and up which is devastating if the blade happened to be between the attackers legs. I call this move defanging his balls OO
 
David James of Vee-Arnise fame teaches the hammer, and avoids the saber due to its vunerability to impact disarms.
I seem to have better flexibility with the saber, so I train moving my thumb saber to hammer, and hammer to saber.
 
Hello SYK, hope you're well...some books to consider would be:

1.REAL WORLD SELF DEFENSE by Jerry Van Cook

2.The KNIFE FIGHTING ENCYCLOPEDIA (Vol.1) by Hock Hockheim, as well as Vol.2 of the ENCYCLOPEDIA, entitled MILITARY KNIFE COMBAT

3. Michael Janich's books, KNIFE FIGHTING:A PRACTICAL COURSE, & STREET STEEL

4. Col. Rex Applegate's KILL OR GET KILLED and John Styer's COLD STEEL for the Western military perspective

5. and Marc "Animal" MacYoung's books on knife fighting, escape & evasion (STREET E & E), and his first book, on the psychology of street-fighting, CHEAP SHOTS...

You can purchase Hock's books directly at www.HocksCQC.com

and the rest can be found at www.paladin-press.com

Okay, that said, SYK--a word of advice?
Since you live in Singapore, why not seriously consider studying Silat? Many of the bladeplayers on this Forum practice SE Asian styles to begin with, and, well, you, my friend, are at "the mouth of the river" so to speak...One most excellent system of Indo-Malay Bladed Combatives is Silat Seni Gayong, and they have numerous training groups in Singapore, here are some links:
www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Fuji/7899/sejarah.html

members.tripod.com/~gayongpasak/index.html
www.gayong.com (Gayong Amerika)

Good luck with everything, stay safe and peace...
 
Gentlemen, thank you once again for the information and suggestions.

I will be rethinking my gripping of knives in light of what has been said.

I will probably get some of the books and I did look at the silat links.

Unfortunately, I can't read malay. I'll have to get my wife to do some translating for me, because she can read malay(although she's chinese)

Socially, it may not be easy for me to get into the silat organisations here as I am chinese and all of these guys are malay. For me, if I think someone has something good, I don't care if his skin is green, yellow, white or black.

But in real life, things aren't so easy. I may have trained together with these guys in the army, but after that, it's not so easy.

Also, I suspect that the emphasis in these organisation is more on the unarmed component rather than weapons usage. My impression of silat here is that it is mostly unarmed.
Possibly it is like the TKD and Karate schools here, more like a sport.

But once again, thanks very much for all the help and suggestions.

Best wishes from SYK
 
Hmmmm, SYK, I see your conundrum...

Silat bladework is incredibly nasty stuff, fully integrated into their empty-hand work--basically, what they do w/their hands, they do with knives (kris, kerambit, parang, golok, etc.)...deadly, great stuff, if they LET you train it...

That said, Cigku Sulaiman, the top Gayong man in the US is an incredibly open, accepting and kind fellow, and if he's representative of his organisation--Silat Seni Gayong, then it should be okay, y'know?
Again, I can't say for certain (I am in the USA, after all), you should perhaps just see for yourself...Use your own discretion.

If the Silat route doesn't work for you, the Filipino Martial Arts (which is what most of us do here, obviously)would be your best bet...it closely parallels Silat on many points, anyway--just does the weapons before/simaltaneously with the empty hand...do a search for "Arnis", "Kali", or "Eskrima" instruction in your area...or, perhaps ask any friends you might have in the Filipino community in Singapore ("Arnis" and "Eskrima" are the most common terms for FMA)...good luck and please let us know how it turns out for you...

Be well,

bayani
 
SYK, if you must grab only a few of the books--get the books by Van Cook, Janich, Hochheim, and the first Marc MacYoung book, CHEAP SHOTS...as well as his book on knifefights...that should be enough...

good luck. And stay safe.
 
Thanks for your advice again, bayani.

If I get any training here I will surely post abt it.

Best wishes from SYK
 
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