Questions on the vinegar etch

[Vampire Hunter D]

This is what I've done so far:

I sanded the blade starting with 300 and went to 800. Then I buffed with a grey scotch brite pad first followed by the green.

I then washed the blade with Palmolive and windex. I heated the blade with water, dried and wrapped it in paper towels.

The apple cider vinegar was poured on and Seran(sp?) wrap was put around the whole thing.

Two hours later I unwrapped the blade, it was a light mottled grey with little circles here and there from the towel. I stopped the acid with baking soda, washed the blade again and oiled it.

This morning I repeated the process minus the sanding. Now the blade is mottled light and dark grey with less little circles.

What I'm trying to do is get the blade as dark as possible. It looks pretty cool now, almost like I found it buried in some old box. Am I doing something wrong? 4 Hours seems like it should have had a greater impact on the blade than this. Is there a better way to do this or should I just keep repeating the process?

Thanks in advance.

- D

 

[Nasty]

Interesting...I've got the "Nasty Gentleman's Sword" soaking right now myself. I have found that the degreasing is the key factor. I use a grain alcohol (theoretically suitable for drinking although it can't be sold here in Ohio) as my final rinse...seems to work well. As for *dark*, if that's what I wanted, I'd do the surface prep of sanding, scotch pads and vinegar, then hit it with a Birchwood Casey blueing product. Dark, dark, dark...

 

[Daniel Koster]

vinegar produces a gray etch, as far as I know - it won't produce the dark etch you are looking for.

For that, you will need to etch in FeCl - Ferric Chloride (circuit board etchant available at Radio Shack). Then quickly rinse it (in another container) with acetone. That will give you a darker etch.

The vinegar treatment is for those wanting a neutral etch, but darker than the "lemon etch".

 

[Daniel Koster]

If you want a truly aged, cool-looking etch do this:

With a new paintbrush, "paint" your cleaned blade with bleach. Just a few brushes each side. Let it sit for anywhere from 15-60 minutes (longer will start to pit). Be sure to mask your bolster and handle!

Then brush on FeCl in the same manner.

Then brush on Acetone as a rinse.

You'll get a great aged look.

 

[Vampire Hunter D]

That sucks. I seem to remember reading somewhere that vinegar was used to get a dark grey. Some parts of the blade are as dark as I want. It just seems like there should be a way to even to colour out.

Pen,


Will it still be ok to use my khuk for food prep if I use the FeCL and acetone. I don't think it would.

Thanks for the help so far.


- D

 

[Daniel Koster]

yeah - just rinse with vinegar again (won't make it any darker). The acetone pretty much cleans everything off. Just to be 100% certain, make a 50/50 paste of baking soda/water, slather it on and rinse it off. That will stop any futher etching and neutralize any leftover acids.

As a final step you could rub some lemon over it. Won't change the etch, but will give you a nice fruity flavor....

When it comes to storage time, wipe on mineral oil - also foodsafe.

 

[Vampire Hunter D]

Where do I get acetone? And is this stuff ok to wash down the drain?

- D

 

[Nasty]

They have barrels of it in the shops area D...along with the FeCl. They use both working on circuit boards.

 

[wildmanh]

VHD acetone AKA Paint stripper is easy to find. I used it to remove the coating on my old Camp Tramp. Does good and leaves a nice dark finish showing the temper line.

BTW how is your new Swamp Rat?

Heber

 

[raghorn]

To answer your other question: Please DON'T pour acetone down the drain!

 

[Jebadiah_Smith]

I just posted some detailed instructions and pictures for a mustard patina on knifeforums.com in the khukri section. I am too lazy to retype.

 

[FallingKnife]

I've seen acetone in home-improvement stores near the paint thinner / paint remover. It's a rather intense solvent used for such things as removing old furniture finishes. It's also sold as fingernail polish remover (except for the "non-acetone" versions, of course).

It can be pretty dangerous stuff. Treat it sorta like gasoline. The fumes can make you pretty sick, but can also burn enthusiastically.

Edit to add: I don't want to say you shouldn't use this, but that you need to be careful.

 

[ddean]

Some parts of the blade are as dark as I want. It just seems like there should be a way to even to colour out.

paper towel around blade in a plastic bag
guarantees a mottled patina

suspend in the vinegar
or
brush it on with a wide brush
casual speed
and continue without pause on both sides
unless you dry the blade completely
and oil if more than a few minutes pause

moist calcium carbonate or baking soda works well to remove mistakes
so that you can start fresh
(or 0000 steel wool if you want speed & don't mind the extra abrasion)

~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<> call me 'Dean' -FYI-FWIW-IIRC-JMO-M2C-YMMV-TIA-YW-GL-HH-HBD-IBSCUTWS-TWotBGUaDUaDUaD
<> Tips <> Baha'i Prayers Links--A--T--H--D

 

[Vampire Hunter D]

So Dean, your saying that if I fill a milk jug with vinegar and then stab it with my khuk and let it brew it will even it out?

I'm just trying to make sure I understand. And if I use the paint brush how long will it take?

Thanks guys.

- D

 

[ddean]

So Dean, your saying that if I fill a milk jug with vinegar and then stab it with my khuk and let it brew it will even it out?

yep
I usually stab it through the neck-hole of the bottle for max depth
Probably use dilute vinegar
try 1+1 (or more water) & check after 10 min+20+30+60......
to see how it progresses
Too strong & you'll get a 'stream' of lighter/darker oxide
as the heavier 'used' solution runs down the blade.
-Slight- aggitation of any sort fairly often, can prevent this.
But this applies more to stronger solutions.

And if I use the paint brush how long will it take?

depends how strong the solution.
Basic vinegar will show effect after 5-10 min or sooner
& progress faster after that.
Depends on temp too,
& prior etch on blade opening up the surface grain of the steel.


With stronger solutions you can also dip in & out of the solution
when using the bottle.

Brush just lets you use stronger solutions more carefully

& requires less solution.


~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<> call me 'Dean' -FYI-FWIW-IIRC-JMO-M2C-YMMV-TIA-YW-GL-HH-HBD-IBSCUTWS-TWotBGUaDUaDUaD
<> Tips <> Baha'i Prayers Links--A--T--H--D

 

[Bri in Chi]

I once tried wrapping a blade in a vinegar soaked paper towel to patina it and ended up with the awful looking pattern of the towel etched deeply into the steel. Looked like a bad mistake or, if you prefer... misteak.
Now I use Dean's cornstarch and vinegar method, adding a few drops of dish detergent and acetone.

 

[ddean]

vinegar method, adding a few drops of .....acetone.

you add acetone to the vinegar ??????
does it actually mix in ?

Curious re the cornstarch.......
Are you dipping, brushing..........
Which advantage(s) do you find.
I've only used it once so far myself.
Can't even recall what prompted me to try it.

~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<> call me 'Dean' -FYI-FWIW-IIRC-JMO-M2C-YMMV-TIA-YW-GL-HH-HBD-IBSCUTWS-TWotBGUaDUaDUaD
<> Tips <> Baha'i Prayers Links--A--T--H--D

 

[ddean]

let it brew it will even it out?

I think that once the oxide gets thick enough
it 'insulates' the steel from the solution
so the darkest steel gets dark more slowly than the lighter oxided steel.
Eventually the 2 areas get close enough you can't much tell the diff

Oiling also 'sets' the carbon / oxide layer.

~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<> call me 'Dean' -FYI-FWIW-IIRC-JMO-M2C-YMMV-TIA-YW-GL-HH-HBD-IBSCUTWS-TWotBGUaDUaDUaD
<> Tips <> Baha'i Prayers Links--A--T--H--D

 

[Bri in Chi]

Yes, Dean the acetone mixed right in, but I think overnight it converted the acetic acid (vinegar) into something else. I'm not a chemist ( but I played one in college for a while ) so I don't know what exactly went on in that jar. It made some nice colors on the steel, though. I applied it with a disposable brush (1/2") And let it sit about an hour, then scrubbed the rusty colored crud off with soap and an old tooth brush, as I said.

 

[ddean]

the acetone mixed right in, but I think overnight it converted the acetic acid (vinegar) into something else.

Hmmmmmm.............
Need to try that mixture & see......


A quick Google to find info
I see that acetone is soluable in water
& acetic acid is chemically very close to acetone
They go back & forth easily in many common chemical reactions

Soap may contain enough other chemicals that something
combines with either/both the acetone & acetic acid
to yield another product useful for etching/patinas.

Firkin ?