Questions regarding CRK Sebenza 21

Just to be different, my small Selena 21 will be back from the CRK shop in Idaho tomorrow. I had to send it in because it was just about impossible to open one handed. We will see how it is when I get it back and I hope it is great because it is a very nice looking knife. So on top of the high price of the knife I had to pay shipping both ways and with insurance that was another $37.50 because they didn’t do a good job putting it together. The Hogue Deka that I have is about $500.00 cheaper and opens like a dream.
 
All,

Thank you so much for all the interesting, informative and helpful insights and thoughts.

Some more feedback from my side as soon as I have “digested” all this information. Some stated opinions make me think a little more about some aspects, therefore it was definitely worth to ask.

Last but not least, with a smile in my face (no offense taken, no offense intended): The fact that I ask such questions, especially the one if a CRK is worth its higher price vs some other knifes, has for me no connection at all to my willingness to spend such an amount of money or not. It’s just that I like to understand, no matter how much money I spend for something. I am well aware of the fact that at the end of the day I have to make my own opinion and decision. And considering the really helpful, informative and friendly replies in the forum to such questions I would be a fool not to utilize such a source to learn and finally understand a little better. ;)

Herbert
 
I am far from an expert on knives, nor am I an expert on the Sebenza, but here is my take based on my affair with CRK that has spanned more than half my life. In short, I think you will appreciate the engineering that goes into the Seb and the precision that characterizes the execution of these knives combined with what is a surprisingly minimalist design. In my experience, it is a knife you appreciate more with use than it is one you instantly appreciate.

Is it worth twice the ZT? To me, totally. The Sebenza is a precision cutting instrument that accomplishes what it sets out to do spectacularly well, and everything present on the knife contributes to accomplishing the said task. You can take it apart and put it back together a gazillion times and it will still maintain its extremely tight tolerances...this fascinates me not just for the functional benefit but for how few other items there are in my home that I can say this about. You get a blade with exceptional grind consistency, geometry, and heat treatment...I personally prefer the Insingo blade which I feel is one of the best performing blades to ever make it to a folding knife. The overall operation of the knife is fundamentally simple by design, and has a longevity that can be measured in decades.

Compared to ZT, the S35VN on a current CRK folder (post-2016-ish) tends to be harder, the CRK has a very deep hollow grind with a factory edge with a convex, and the blade tends to be thinner than most ZT designs, so it is a very different knife overall. When opening, the CRK has a very hydraulic feel and it's not a flicky fidget knife. The thumb studs take some getting used to if your other folders have extremely large thumb studs. There are a lot of really good knives out there, but I really like CRK's designs.

Here are a few images to show the level of detail these knives are given. (I am not a very good photographer but they should do)
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I love my large Sebbie 21. I've had many, in large and small sizes, in various configs such as wood inlays, CF, and I still prefer the plain old slab-sided titanium model. I carry one daily.
The Sebbie design is that you can tighten down the pivot screw until it is tight, and the blade will still drop free when released. That is the "design," but not all new or used Sebbies will do that, as many have washers that are a bit oversized and need to be "custom-sanded" to fit perfectly. There is a YT video that describes this process. I used his drop-free video to "fix" my own Sebbie.
Jim Ankerson is the fellow here who has years of experience in cutting cardboard and using 5/8" manila rope for testing the edge-holding capabilities of various steels. I've included a link to his voluminous study, as well as a link to "fix" a Sebbie that does not drop free when released. You can learn a ton by reading Jim's thread...
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...ed-on-edge-retention-cutting-5-8-rope.793481/

 
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My signature sums up a good opinion on worth of knives but for me and my Insingo that is 10 years old it has cost me less than 14cents per day and still going on strong.
 
An addendum to my previous post...
I also have an Umnumzaan...reserved for heavy-duty apps, like the time I had to pry off the cast iron lid off of the water pipe in order to shut off the main supply due to a large shower in my kitchen sink... The Blade laughed at that task...
Note that for a number of yrs, Chris Reeve was voted (by his peer-group). the Outstanding Manufacturer Award at the annual Atlanta Blade Show.
In my opinion, his knives are right at the top and deserve the praise.
Note that the most imp parameter in edge-holding may be the geometry...
A thinner blade-steel, with proper grind and thin behind the edge can do wonders on cardboard...
 
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Never owned a 21 as the Umnumzaan design speaks more to me, but having had a lot of knives I can say there are things about the 21 that I really like (the grind, washers, and fasteners) but that overall those strengths can be found on cheaper knives and that as a whole most CRKs don't perform at the level their price suggests they might. Severe diminishing returns mean that the 21 really might be ~20% better than the ZT for 3 times the price. You decide if that's worth it to you.
 
PaultheCarpenter said:
It all seems to depend on how hard you want to flex on instagram.
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Sorry, took me a while to "understand" this comment, but as a non-native English speaker I first had to look for the meaning of "to flex" in slang.
Hope you don´t mind, but in my case I dare to put such a comment simply in the "category": "Thema verfehlt! Setzen, sechs!" ;)

Herbert
 
as far as price go's I would say the sebenza 21 is worth every penny and no matter how much one uses it things never move, I mean the knife was made right in the first place, I have the bog wood inlays but I always found myself trying to keep the thing clean! much happier with the bead blasted finish with Micarta scales , never owned a CZ so I can't speak to that, but what lots people don't understand it really is a work knife that always functions, hope you pick wisely and good luck.
 
Firs time I bought Sebenza several years ago, it was a standard large plain Jane 21. The main reason was that it is lefty frame lock. I am wasn’t impressed actually, it was to boring for my taste, and I even wasn’t much sorry when lost it during hike.
Couple years later I’m finded a strange thing - every time when I try to describe myself the characteristics of perfect EDC knife that I want to have I’m turning back to Sebenza :D So when I finded out that the 21 model is going to out from production, I finally made the order. It was very hard to make a choice with the design. Plain is to boring, graphics not for me, wood inlays looks great and prefect for “dressy days”, but not so good for daily beating, micarta inlays great for work, but not so classy for the suit ... Nightmare :D Well, I decide to not fighting with my self and ordered small Sebbie with Macassar ebony inlays and the large with micarta! Both lefty of course, and I hope within the week they will arrive to my grabby hands :D
So I really believe that Sebenza worth it to try for sure :)
 
Sorry, but I have two additional questions at this moment:

What blade finish has the Sebenza 21 with Insingo Grind and Micarta Inlay? I think it says stonewashed, is that correct? Just want to be sure.

Any "recommendation" reg. the color of the Micarta Inlay? Available is grey and red linen. Is the grey Micarta more on the dark or bright side of the spectrum?

Herbert
 
crowley213 said:
Sorry, but I have two additional questions at this moment:

What blade finish has the Sebenza 21 with Insingo Grind and Micarta Inlay? I think it says stonewashed, is that correct? Just want to be sure.

Any "recommendation" reg. the color of the Micarta Inlay? Available is grey and red linen. Is the grey Micarta more on the dark or bright side of the spectrum?

Herbert
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Yes, stonewashed blade. Three micarta colors to choose from, black, natural and red. I believe red is only found at knivesshipfree. I believe it’s an exclusive for them. All micarta will get darker with use. You can wash it with soap and water to restore the original shade.
 
XL883N said:
It won't do anything your ZTs can't do. You buy a Sebenza because you want the best, or "the best" in quotations depending on your opinion, and because you just want a Chris Reeve in your pocket. They are overpriced but I find everything worth owning nowadays is.

One thing that people keep stressing with CRKs is the tight tolerances. Honestly, I don't get it. My Benchmades and Spydercos go back together just as well and screws go in just as easily. The only difference is you don't use locktite on a Sebenza.

I love my CRKs and would buy them again if were to do it all over.
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XL I have to agree with you on this tolerances thing that keeps coming up about Sebenzas. I own three Sebenzas and I like them a lot but there is no magic there, they are nicely made, good solid knives which I enjoy owning and using. I have a degree in Manufacturing Engineering and worked as an Engineer in charge of Maintenance for two steel mills and one large machine shop that made cutting blades for the steel industry, so I know my way around metals and machining. Both of the Steel mills had their own machine shops, which I directed, for making of custom parts, repair of broken parts, and fabrication and machining of custom parts designed in-house parts. In one of the mills that I worked, we designed in-house all of the proprietary machinery used for the reduction of steel and titanium tubing that was made there.

The "tolerances" of a Sebenza are likely no different than most other knife companies when they make the parts for there knives. There are plenty of knives that work as smoothly and are assembled as well as a Sebenza. Most people do not understand what the term tolerance means in a manufacturing environment anyway so they are just throwing this terminology around. How tolerances are used on what type of part has a great deal of effect on how a device operates. For instance the tolerance required for the knife's side plate is not the same as the pivot shaft or the bearing area or the handle spacers or the blade, etc.. If you think the manufacturing tolerances used by CRK differ greatly from those used by Spyderco or Benchmade or Microtech or Zero Tolerance then you are wrong. There is no magic at CRK, there is no hocus pocus, there is no perfection in every way and no manufacturer has 'zero tolerances' when it comes to parts and machining.
 
4mer_FMF said:
Two-ish years ago the Sebenza/Inkosi became the metric I use to judge other knives.

Instead of buying a knife just because I thought Id like it, I started asking myself if I’d rather put the funds aside for another CRK variant. My knife purchases decreased precipitously.

I like the simplistic, understated and highly functional design. I’d also be lying if I said there wasn’t a bit of mystique involved as well.

They are production knives and not all of them are perfect (I have one that’s a wee bit off center, even after a trip to Boise). However, with every other knife I own (mostly Spyderco & ZT) I can tell something in the design or execution was driven by price point. Maybe it’s the pocket clip, maybe there’s an unchamfered edge, but it’s there. I don’t perceive that with the CRK’s I own, at all. I like that.

I still own, use, and enjoy other knives. In fact, aside from purpose driven uses, I committed myself to only carry my old ZT 0900 and new Spyderco Swayback until the end of summer. That said, for me the Sebenza/Inkosi/Umnumzaan are worth the price and I’m glad I have a few.
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It doesn't seem to bother you, but the locating hole in the scale just stares me in the face as something that's only there because it was convenient for them to do it that way. Glad they removed it on the 31.
 
In fact, value is mainly subjective and personal.

whatever knife you consider, the price you pay includes the cost of the material, the cost of the labour/assembly/control, the margin of the manufacturer and the margin of the reseller(s).
The more hype a product/brand has the higher will be the margins.

feoman economical point of view you will always get “less value” for a very hyped brand

as a consequence, we should get more value from our ZT than from our CRK

the problem with knives (cars/shoes/watches, choose your poison ;) ) is that a lot of the perceived value will come from our personal perception

mid you like strong detent and snappy action , no way a CRK is worth the money compared to a ZT

if you like slocoer blades, better grinds, simple designs, etc. you may disregard ZT
ZT makes good knives.
Since I got into ZT I have no interest in most of their products.
Not because their are inferior to CRK, just because for the price I prefer owning 1 CRK rather than 2 ZT
That is just me.
You perceptions and feelings when handling tour knives can be the opposite and that is fine

is CRK overpriced? Yes I think so.
Is that a bad thing? No, they still deliver good quality and time proven designs

Is ZT overpriced? In some ways yes (good material but design and grind wise I have some complaints)
Is that a bad thing? No, their products are robust

IMO we shall not run after trends
We shall trust our feelings and be true to what we like and enjoy

you like ZT? That is good to be a ZT fanboy;)
You are sceptical about CRK? Try to handle one and make your own opinion

we don’t need to be “right” , we need to enjoy what we buy with our money ;)

i had something like 10 ZT and sold most of them
I still have 3 and I think I will sold 2 of them
I still like ZT, IMO the best machining capabilities for the price
Do it prefer them to CRK? Really no

and for a lot of people it can be just the other way round ;)
 
CRKs are really nice, if you think they look really good, well they cut great too, you won't be disappointed.
If you have the money and don't mind spending it, buy whatever CRK or Sebenza 21 looks the best to you
and you're good to go.
Lot of 'em are tight right out of the box, but they break-in well. Carried everyday, the action will seem to get better over a period of about 2-3 months of regular carry and level off to something glassy smooth around 4-6 months.
I'm no financial advisor but I'd say the Sebenza is definitely a situation where if you have the money and want it, you should get it.
 
OrangeBlueOrangeBlue said:
It doesn't seem to bother you, but the locating hole in the scale just stares me in the face as something that's only there because it was convenient for them to do it that way. Glad they removed it on the 31.
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Might sound strange to you, but I definitely get caught up in the mystique of something like the Sebenza. It's a good enough knife that's been around long enough, I think it deserves at least some of the mystical glow. :p
I liked the locating hole on the 21 and was disappointed to see it go on the 31. For me, it was like this little artifact left over from the magical process of constructing a Sebenza!!...:rolleyes::rolleyes:
I always think of belly button rings when I see the custom graphics with some kind of rare Earth insert in the locating hole.:D:D
 
I never thought of owning a CRK, I didn't see the appeal. Titanium slabs with average steel. The more I've read about and experienced knives, the more I've begun to appreciate CRK. Now, I really want a Sebenza.

If you don't get one now, you'll likely get to that point in the future, if you stick around the knife hobby. The craftsmanship, quality, and customer service are top-tier.
 
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