Quick story and lesson learned.

David E said:
Glad your wife and family are ok.

I've learned over the years that my wife and family come way ahead of defending a macho ego.

In this case, they WERE defended when the van driver didn't pursue any other course of action and left the scene. Mission accomplished.

Telling the cop you would've shot the guy if only you'd had a gun tells him you're perhaps unstable, prone to over reaction and/or you got a real big macho ego you're trying to defend, either at the time or to the cop and wife.


In this case, there was no vehicle contact and simply braking and pulling over avoided anything further. Sounds like "mission accomplished" to me.

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Nice to hear a LE perspective, but it is a little different from mine. I guess you guys see this more often and know that it normally doesn't result in much more than ruffled feathers. Not trying to beat my chest but I'm pretty confident in my ability to spot malicious intent. This definately qualified. What I get from your post and the responding officer is "You're OK, what's the problem?". Problem is that folks are allowed to be aggresive and not suffer any retaliation past the point when they decide to de-escelate. Call me macho, whatever, but I think that is a very "Sheeple" standpoint. I've played both the wolf and the sheepdog in my life, and the sheepdogs definately have the short end of the stick. Three tours since 9/11 have proven that time and time again, I guess you could say I'm prone to over-reacting, but Id rather over react than under react any day, it's kept me alive this long. A car is a weapon, plain and simple. When you're in a car and attacked, stay in the car unless it or the driver are out of the fight. My wife's a good driver, but not one to "Attack the Attacker". If you have to get out of the car, bring the fight until the fight is over. I wasn't trying to be macho, I was doing what is right in my book. You're absolutely right that it was over when he drove off. But that shouldn't relieve him of any responsiblity for his actions. Definately doesn't mean I should have shot him through his rear window. But shouldn't it have some sort of repremand? At least a traffic stop reminding the driver to watch his manners? I'll get off my soap box, and this is getting pretty far from being Busse related, but it still raises my hackles. I know there are idiots out there, and I've definately been one more times than I'd care to admit. Just seems the guy gets away clean from an incident that could've resulted in a serious accident injuring my family.

Alright, rant off. Back to the regularly scheduled program. Hell, all I really want to know is when the folder will be released!;)
 
flatlander said:
I invited him down a country road. The look was priceless when I got out with a holstered Glock 19.........

Bob Mills
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The bad news is, if you "predictably escalate" the confrontation, you will not be able to claim "self defense," even if he pulls a gun on you and you have to shoot him.

Why ? Because not only did you fail to attempt to disengage, but instead, actively participated in escalating the situation.

Something to be aware of.

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Thanks. Guess I'm used to going plus 1, something to remember to leave at work.

All the best-
 
Jerry Busse said:

Just as the dance was getting well underway, a shotgun blast cut through the fun and grabbed everyone's attention!!! Turned out that an old farmer had been watching this situation unfold and thought that he might lend a hand. After he had all of our attention, he informed the degenerates that it didn't seem like a fair fight and he insisted, in his down home way, that the degenerates could only fight me one at a time

Nuke on my wayward HogFrog! :thumbup:

Jerry
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Wow, Jerry that's amazing. My father told me he broke up a fight that sounded just like that. Since he has since passed on, sounds like YOU owe me BIG TIME!!!!


Is the guilt trip doing anything for me in getting a special edition "I saved Jerry's butt" survival knife?


HUH, is it????:D :D
 
David E said:
one call I got of kids TP'ing someone's yard. When I arrived, the homeowner had a Ruger .357 Blackhawk in his hand. What was he going to do, shoot a kid for tossing a roll of toilet paper into his yard?
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shit happens :rolleyes: ;)
 
David E said:
The bad news is, if you "predictably escalate" the confrontation, you will not be able to claim "self defense," even if he pulls a gun on you and you have to shoot him.

Why ? Because not only did you fail to attempt to disengage, but instead, actively participated in escalating the situation.

Something to be aware of.

.
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True but a man who stands for nothing will fall for anything;)

Bob
 
Our macho bullcrap can indeed get us in serious trouble. I had an incident a few years ago where I did everything wrong, and let my anger make me do some stupid, stupid things. I could well be in prision today if my son had not borrowed my truck for a date on Friday night.

When I said he could use the truck, I moved my .45 auto from it into the house. The next morning I left home early in the truck to go buy a bakers rack my wife wanted for her birthday. The easiest way to get to the furniture store from the divided highway was to swing through the parking lot of a tire store next to it, pull back onto the highway, then turn into the furniture store parking lot. As I did so, a car containing two older teenagers zoomed across in front of me into a parking space in front of the tire store. I had to stand on my brakes to avoid hitting them. I blew my horn and proceeded up the parking lot drive to pull back into the highway. In my mirror I saw them out of their car, following my truck up the drive, shouting and waving. Stupid act number one: I was angry and so decided to accomodate them.
I put in in park in the driveway and got out to meet them. They split and the smaller one moved as if to come around the other side of my truck. The much larger one coming straight at me then pulled a large revolver from behind his back, waving it around wildly. At this point I had no panic at all, I just reached into my truck for the .45, having every intention of dumping him.
Almost simultaneously I realized that the .45 wasn't there. I had no choice but to roll back under the wheel and pull up the driveway and into the highway. Stupid act number two: I turned into the furniture store parking lot, still intent on my original destination! As I did so, I saw that the store was closed, it had gone out of business. I glanced over to my right and when the punk saw me looking at him again, he braced his arms across the top of his car with ther revolver aimed at me.

Extremely stupid act number three: It had so galled me to have to turn tail from these punks, and I was so angry, that as I turned my truck in a circle in the empty parking lot, I turned so that my driver's side window came around by the punk, and I started waving an obscene gesture at him as I slowly drove by him!

If I had shot him, while sitting in a spot where I could obviously just drive away, and in response to an incident which I had taken actions to escalate, I could have been in serious trouble. This incident really shook me, not so much the gun pointed at me, but the realization of how angry and stupid I was capable of being and how close I probably came to prision or getting shot. I had a reputation, and had believed it, of being a responsible, level-headed person. This incident caused me to rethink a lot of things. I have been in a couple of incidents since, not of my own making, where someone became extremely angry and threatened violence against me. At this point, I now become extremely polite, firmly state my position but say nothing that could later be costrued by witnesses as being inflammatory. Interestingly enough, both times I have reacted this way, the other guy has immediately backed off.
 
just hand over those pistols... slow, real slow, slows like molassas in the winter time... slow sozi can count the hars on the back o your hand....

- josie, josie wales, 1866 -
 
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