Quick Update: My first CPK! Light Chopper first impressions (pic heavy)

[Ifellonscissors]

This is my first knife from Nate. I have a few Survive! Knives on order and in those threads the topic of Delta 3V came up. I watched the videos and decided I needed to get my hands on something Delta 3V soon. Waiting for my GSO 7/7 was a crappy option. I saw a bunch of people talking about the Light Chopper. Did some research and was pretty impressed with what I read/watched. I got lucky in the last Friday sale!

When all’s said and done, I think I am happy with the purchase. I need more time using the knife in a practical setting to be sure. There are two issues that are holding back final judgement. Read on…

Oh. I want to make sure that if Nate or Jo or Lorien read this that I make something clear. I am giving my open and honest opinion with humility and respect. I imagine you would prefer it that way rather than having a fanboy response that blows smoke. This is a progression of first thoughts through some practical use. I’m just documenting my observations and experiences as best as I can. I hope it turns out to be helpful or at least entertaining.

I took the LC out and did a little real world-ish work with it (an hour or so) just to see how it performed. I was planning to get out more but (wife’s frowny face) + (in-laws in town) = guilt trip. Sigh. You single people have it easy.

** During this write up I used my Busse Steel Heart Ergo as a reference considering it is my “Current Chopper and Performer of Heavier Tasks”. Henceforth, it shall be referred to as SHE. Before SHE there was a Rodent 7 filling the role. There is a pattern. Roughly 7 inch blades measuring a quarter inch thick.

First impressions:
First, I gotta say that a week between order and delivery is something I could get used to! Near instant gratification is...well...gratifying. I’m not bashing on any other knife maker. I am happy to wait because I know the product is worth it.

I mentioned briefly that the LC was not what I was expecting. Hey. It’s got “chopper” right there in the name! Must be beefy with some heft. I admit, my assumptions were based on what I had in hand, the SHE. SHE has some heft at a quarter inch thick and 7.5 inches of INFI. The LC isn’t as thick but it’s a couple inches longer so that should even things out, right? Can’t wait to hack with this thing when I get it!!

But, um, what is this dainty thing I pulled of of the box?? This can’t be right. It’s so light and...oh, wait. It’s called the LIGHT Chopper. Dammit! My brain was processing it as Light CHOPPER with the emphasis on the ‘chop’ part. Knowing what I use a “chopper” for, out of the gate I was skeptical. That was compounded when I started to handle it a bit more just to get a feel for it. The balance felt off for my notion of a chopper. There isn’t a lot of forward weight compared to SHE. The blade on the LC just feels so dang light! Plus, it vibrates. If you rap on it with your knuckle you can feel some serious buzz. Surely this will translate into the hand when striking hard surfaces? Like one does when chopping! The LC blade is quick. It’s easy to fling the tip around with quite a bit of speed. Like a machete. Also, I swear I can bend it and see quite a bit of flex with just my hands. Not sure how well it will baton through twisty wood. Also like a machete.

On one hand, I have this big slab of INFI that all I have to do is swing it in the direction of what I want to chop and the motion plus its mass gets the job done quickly. The momentum does a lot of the work. On the other hand, there is the LC which is sleek and quick and light(er), with the potential to be a MUCH better carver (if the length doesn’t negate that with a lack of control). But there’s that chopping thing. Yes, skeptical.

Quick side note: The fit and finish are pretty good! Better that all of the knives I own other than Survive! Knives. It’s close. The tumbled finish is decent. I like the peened finish or a shiny finish a bit better but this is well done. The handle scales are fantastic and I really like the way it fits in my hand. I like how it is thinner when you hold closer to the blade for carving or cutting tasks and how it is thicker when sliding back for chopping. Great design! The sheath is pretty nice. I got the dangler with it. I like that it has velcro so it can be looped over a belt without having to unbuckle. The retention is tight without being overly so. There are lots of rivets so it will be easy to attach a pouch and other accessories to the sheath. The stitching, dangler ring and nylon straps are well done. There is a little rattle but it isn’t too bad.

First Use - Firewood Prep:
That first night I took the LC out to some firewood prep for the fire pit. This is where I came across the first real world issue. The pointy finger guard. It took about 10 minutes to surface this (and the other real world issue). My preferred grip is a tight hammer grip. It places my hand as far forward as it can go so I have as much handle in contact with my hand as possible. My first finger is tight against the finger guard with my thumb (depending on the knife) might reach to the end of the handle and pull back towards my hand. It gives me a really locked in feeling. I quickly found that the LC can be very uncomfortable and would generate a serious hot spot where the handle material ends at the finger guard. It’s bad. The finger guard is pointy and pokes right into the side of my knuckle. The first night when I was using the LC to process firewood and do some light carving I had to change positions frequently to relieve the pressure. In the pictures below you can see that after holding it for 1 to 2 minutes there’s a dent in my finger. Imagine chopping or woodworking for any length of time with that going on! Ouch!! I included a photo of my Steel Heart Ergo for comparison. The finger guard has a gradual curve rather than a point. MUCH better. I wish the LC finger guard was a bit more curved with a more gentle sweep. Spoiler: I use gloves when I do any real work with a knife. With gloves on, this wasn’t as much of a problem but I did feel it. I just didn’t have to change hand position as frequently.

This is a good opportunity to bring up the second issue. The choil. I am not a fan of choils in general but the one on the LC is small. Like vienna sausage small. My pinky finger might be able to rest in there without encroaching on the edge. I wish the choil would have been either left off the knife or made a tad wider. Just my opinion.

The LC actually did pretty well with firewood prep. The blade geometry makes it a really good slicer. It made curls, feathers and shavings pretty much on par with my GSO 5.1. It split kindling without issue all the way down to under pencil sized pieces. One area where I had some expected trouble was using the tip to “stab and twist” thicker pieces to split them into tinier pieces. The length made it a bit unwieldy and awkward but with practice it did get a bit better. A shorter knife definitely does it better.

At this point I started thinking maybe the LC could make a really good one tool camp knife. It’s very nimble in spite of it’s length. It’s light and didn’t cause fatigue. The handle filled my hand extremely well. I’ll need some more practical, real world usage to see. Read on!

Second Use - Making of the Plank:
I took the LC out into the woods with SHE tagging along as a benchmark. Not sure that it was comparing knife apples to knife apples but it was comparing my current chopper to a potential new chopper with the goal of finding the right combination of tools to take with me...wherever. The SHE has the edge reprofiled a bit thinner that it came from the factory so it’s sharp. And chops/batons really well. And carves ok, enough to be decent in a pinch.

As I walked along the trail I used the LC to cut back raspberry bushes, nettles, branches and other plant life that had grown over. It handled everything thumb thick and below with a single slash. I seem to remember reading it was designed with brush clearing in mind and id did it perfectly. Like a short machete. Ma-chet-taay!! There is no way SHE could compete. At all. Don’t try it at home, kids. You’ll pull a spleen. Or split your knee cap.

I only had a short time so I needed to find a task that would normally have me reaching for a chopping tool. I know! I’ll make a plank out of a log. Planks come in handy for flooring, sleeping platform, shelves, doors, etc. Sometimes a round piece of wood just doesn’t quite work. I’d probably use an axe or hatchet for this since it’s all about removing a lot of material with moderate precision and control.

The goal is to make a 2x4 or a 2x3 depending on the makeup of the log. I start with the wider sides first and then the two narrow sides. The first step is chop-planing one side of the log making sure to keep it flat (not twisted). It sounds easier than it actually is. Once the first side is done I move to opposite side and make it parallel to the first side. It’s important to try to remove the same amount from both of the longer sides as it makes getting the narrow sides 90 degrees a bit easier. Pictures are better. It isn’t perfect but it gets the idea across. I didn’t go all the way to a “finished” surface as you can see they are still a little fuzzy.

Choppers and choppee:

Original post was too many characters. Preparing next couple of posts right now. Should be up in a few minutes...

 

[Ifellonscissors]

First up, the LC on the wide side:
The LC bit deep but tended to shave off thinner layers. The LC would progressively almost peel the surface away rather than chop chunks off. It took a little more control and finesse that SHE did. If I allowed it the LC would start cutting too deep and I wouldn’t be able to pry of the thick layer. The blade curve made it easy to target specific areas of the working surface. If the middle had a high spot, I’d use the belly to nick off the peak until the surface was even. I also LOVED the blade length for a push knife! OMG! It made smoothing the surface so freaking easy! The blade geometry was a huge plus!! Even with having to use more control and finesse than with SHE I did not feel fatigued. It wasn’t harder, it was just different.

SHE is up next on the wide side:
This thing is a beast. Where the LC is more finesse and precision, this is point and shoot. It removed more material much faster than the LC but it was rougher. I’d say I was able to rough cut the wider side of the plank in a third less time with SHE than the LC. There were more chop marks and the surface ultimately would require more fine tuning. The bites were deeper and chunked rather than cut the layers off. I found myself doing “Thunk, Twist. Thunk, Twist” to pry off the layers. They just popped of. You can see in the pictures that it was accumulating thicker “shavings”. The SHE did ok at removing peaks and high spots. That requires more precision and the blade geometry isn’t really designed for it.

LC and SHE on the narrow sides:
The same observations on the wide sides applies here. The LC is a slicer and removed thinner layers. I felt a little more in control like I was doing precision work. Is that necessary for this type of task? Maybe. The SHE was more brutish and hacked away the material. The push knife thing with the LC again. LOVE IT!!!!

SHE:

And the end result?
A rough 2x3 plank. Just need to cut off the ends.

Both knives accomplished the task. The SHE got it done a little faster but was probably not what I would call a finished surface. Plus, since it doesn’t carve as well it was harder to get the surface to that finished state. I actually used the LC on the SHE side to take off some of the rougher areas. The LC took a little longer but I didn’t feel tired or fatigued.

I found that the LC would skip off the wood periodically if I tried to chop off a really thin layer. It worked better in those instances if I “push knifed” away the material instead. When the LC did skip I did feel a little of that vibration I mentioned earlier. But notice I didn’t mention it while chopping? That’s because I didn’t feel any. When it bit, it was a solid bite. The SHE bit harder and skipped off the wood much less. It’s a powerhouse. Anything the edge comes into contact with gets chopped. All you gotta do is swing, follow through and it does it’s job. The LC takes a little more effort. Since it doesn’t have the mass of the SHE it didn’t follow through and do as much “work” for you.

The edge retention was interesting. I think the result is what I would have expected? Since both knives were used on the same piece of wood removing roughly the same amount of material, I think it is a good comparison. Interestingly, the SHE lost a little of it’s crisp edge. It was still plenty sharp and by no means dull, but I could definitely tell it wasn’t as sharp as when I started. I could still slice and carve with it so it didn’t lose functionality or usefulness. The LC didn’t seem to lose the edge at all.

Which is better? I don’t know yet. It depends on the goal of the task at hand. I like having a big heavy chopper to do the chopping and splitting. The SHE is just that. But it doesn’t do much of anything else very well. The LC, on the other hand, can chop and baton (although the latter makes me nervous. It’s so thin and dainty) plus it can carve and slice. So it appears that it is more versatile. Perhaps falling into the one knife camp tool category. I think it would do well in that role. I don’t have enough time with it yet to see if it would replace SHE. It could. It can clear a trail so I wouldn’t need a machete. It can chop and split so perhaps a hatchet is less necessary. It can chop down small to medium trees. It can process wood for a fire and do finer tasks for traps, etc. I’m not sure it could be used for processing game. It might be too long/unwieldy for that. It isn’t heavy. I like how nimble it feels in the hand and from what I’ve learned so far I think I could use it for long periods without hand or arm fatigue. That’s a lot of positive boxes checked. The LC is definitely a well crafted and impressive tool and CPK should be proud!! So why can’t I decide if it is in the toolbox? Good question.

First, I don’t trust it yet. I need more time with it to become comfortable. It still feels so dainty. I know(!) the SHE won’t break and will take pretty much anything I throw at it (or throw it at). Batoning is one area where I am still not sure how the LC will behave. It feels pretty flexible and I am concerned that a really twisted log would bend it enough to not return to true. I don’t think it would break but I’d prefer it not to bend. I am sure that is just paranoia and I just need to put it through it paces in that regard. Does anyone know what CPK warranty is like?? And the LC is now the longest knife I own. That comes with its own challenges but I think that is just a matter of getting familiar with it.

The other issue(s) are a bit harder to get past. The tiny little Elf finger choil and the damn finger guard. Even with gloves I had a sore spot on my knuckle from the short time making that one plank. I did adjust my hands frequently enough to not get a blister but it still felt like the area was bruised. I really really wish that was more ergonomic. It looks cool but functionally it is painful. Once again, I think time will tell. I need to spend some time with it and see if I can become one with the LC If I constantly have to fight with hand positioning I’ll have to let this go on the exchange. Any tool you have to force yourself to change behavior for or you have to try to force yourself to like (and use) is a dangerous tool.

So there it is. I hope this was useful for people. Please feel free to add comments, disagree and point out things I missed. It’s better when more people add to the thread!

Thank you for reading and take care!

'Scissors

 

[Ifellonscissors]

Oh. I forgot. I keep wanting to use the term "finesse" with the LC. I kinda think it isn't necessarily a bad label. Finesse can mean taking some care. Which could also mean greater efficiency and precision. And I think that is almost ALWAYS a better approach than brute force.

Forgot to make that point earlier.

 

[JustinFournier]

Thanks for the great review scissors. I knew you would bring some valuable information and experience with your amazing Proenneke like skills.

I have a question on the hammer grip, I had a similar initial feeling, as I am used to choking up on the handle and guard. However I found moving it back a little bit relieved a lot of that for me, and the taper kept it in spot nicely. The weight is light enough that I don't feel out of control like I need to move forward on it.

From that slightly rearward grip, when I used the tiny choil, my finger was in it at a 45 degree perhaps. This helped turn the under side of my finger away from the edge, and the way my finger flesh is, completely pulled it away from the edge, and left my thumb right on the ramp, rather than too far forward. It felt like I needed to adjust my grip to fit this knife. It is not a grip I have experienced before. Once I managed this, I love the grip, more than any other I have had on a knife this size. More in the index grove, less against the guard. This might be based on hand size. I'm a 10.

Do you want me to take a pic to illustrate?

I am wondering how you adjusted from your initial to your later experience.

Secondly, I wanted to help answer your question about flex.

Watch this video, if you don't have the full amount of time, skip to about 5:00 and watch from then.

[video=youtube;yC2PLk_04vE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC2PLk_04vE[/video]

I am not gonna try that, but it give me confidence.

The LC is like a sport car.

 

[Lorien]

I imagine you would prefer it that way rather than having a fanboy response that blows smoke.

abso-fuckin-lutely!

Really looking forward to reading through this, just wanted to get that out of the way first!

 

[Bennieboo]

Thanks scissors great read.

 

[Lorien]

noice write up! Really enjoyed that.

Wrt the finger choil, I didn't want one on this knife so what we have instead is more of a sharpening choil. Please don't put your finger in there unless you are VERY careful! And even then, I don't recommend using it thusly.

In approaching the design for this thing, part of the rationale I employed was that the kind of person who would be drawn to this tool would likely be fairly experienced, who would know that there is no one perfect tool, and therefore would likely be carrying a smaller blade for fine work.

I've always felt that for a knife of this size, placing your digits forward of the handle poses an unnecessary risk that is greatly amplified when the user is not very experienced, and that it doesn't provide much benefit. For example, say a beginner knife user tries heavy chopping with their finger in the choil- that might not end well! So, instead of a finger choil, the handle is longer in order to provide multiple gripping options.

That being said, the camp knife pattern that I'm currently designing will definitely have a well designed finger choil forward of the handle since the handle is designed to hold your hand in fewer positions. It will be a 'one knife' type tool that should be able to do most everything moderately well, while the LC is really for a more specific purpose; clearing trail and heavy work- at a weight that allows it to accompany you without slowing you down. This is one of the reasons we've been entertaining the idea of doing an EDC/LC package.

And, it's not light CHOPPER or LIGHT chopper- it's LightChopper!

 

[RicFlair]

Thanks for the nice write up and responses. Good info here. Yup, I would agree with not having one tool. Like most folks here, I carry 3 different blades usually.

 

[nandok]

Thank you for taking the time to write that up, Scissors. Nice board you made! Personally I haven't noticed the guard at all. Maybe my grip is more relaxed? I'll pay more attention to it next time it's in my hand and check back in.

 

[Hard Knocks]

abso-fuckin-lutely!

Really looking forward to reading through this, just wanted to get that out of the way first!

Love this response!!! :thumbup:

 

[Hard Knocks]

'Scissors, thank you for the effort sir! Knowing what you can accomplish with the smaller blades, I have a lot of respect for your opinion on any tool you take ahold of.

Cheers man.

 

[Ifellonscissors]

Thank you all for adding comments. I really appreciate it!

@Justin, thanks for the video link. I had seen that one before but forgot about the bend test. My goal this weekend is to use the LC to do tasks that I felt a little hesitant to try...splitting. I've also been holding it and trying different hand positions while watching TV, etc. I think I may have some ideas on how to keep from running into the finger guard issue. It means I need to change my thinking a bit. I use the firm hammer grip because it seems to work for me in most tasks using a knife. It means less hand shifting which feels safer. As I thought about it, I had an Epiphany!! That thinking doesn't necessarily translate to a knife the size of the LC! The knives I use most frequently are smaller and have a completely different sphere of use. The hammer grip has me covered. But the LC has different uses where the control I get with the hammer grip isn't really necessary. During my review I was trying to find out where the LC shined and where a different tool would do better in order to find out where it could fit in the toolbox.

So, yeah. Cool. I think it won't be an issue.

@Lorien Thank you for taking the time to read through my post! I appreciate your feedback and clarification. I do fully admit that I was going into this LC thing with some preconceived notion on what a chopper should be and I incorrectly lumped the LC into that category. My current idea of a chopper is a big knife that, if it could talk, would say "Hulk Pussy! Me Chop!". The LC is not that and I am glad. It would be just more of the "same old" that I already have in hand. It was surprising and I think that it might be a better fit for my style.

I also agree that multiple tools are the right way to go. The fun part is experimenting and finding the right combination of tools that provide the biggest sphere of capabilities with as much overlap (redundancy) as possible! So far I find that I'm pretty much covered with a Leatherman, Swiss Army Knife, Gomboy saw, GSO 4.7 or 5. The hardest one for me is the last category, and that is a larger tool to handle the chopping/splitting/shaping. It usually comes down to length of trip, mode of transportation (walk, motorcycle, mountain bike, car), and shelter options. It comes down to picking the right combination of tools for the job.

That's where the LC is interesting. In my opinion it makes that sphere of tool capability a little bigger than the SHE. Since it is a new tool for me I just need to get out and use it to increase my confidence and comfort.

Thanks, all

 

[Ifellonscissors]

Thank you, HK!! I appreciate the positive words!

 

[JustinFournier]

Scissors,

One time a while ago on a different sub I had it out with guys complaining about grips. Now, this is not to include you, I have a tremendous amount of respect for you, and your skill which I greatly admire and first and foremost want you to know that. I want to share because it was a lesson I learned years ago I think people often forget. In particular when they have a favorite they often use, and use the same way, they grab the new knife or tool, and immediately expect it to work exactly the same as the others.

With every knife I get, I never start by going straight to the grip the way I want. I gently admire from a distance, plan my approach, gingerly start with my fingertips exploring around, then ask it how it wants to be gripped. After I learn how it wants to be gripped, I try and sweet talk her into letting me try to grip her the way I want, while respecting her limits and intended design.

This approach has never failed me yet, but it has resulted in less than ideal arrangements. That's when you put her out on the curb for her Mom to pick up er I mean put her ass on the exchange!

Looking forward to your next outing while I am here changing diapers. Yay.

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

Wow, that's a great piece of lumber you made there! Very impressive knife skills. :thumbup:

Thank you for the through review and the thoughtful input.

 

[CaptainPicardX]

Personally I hate choils, I avoid them at all cost.. I just use a smaller knife, if I need to be more precise..

 

[rcb2000]

Great review, and very impressive woodsman skills!

 

[Ifellonscissors]

Quick update:

I used the term "dainty" in my initial review. I watched the video of the LC again that Justin pointed out (Thanks, JF!) and decided that I was being paranoid. The LC deserves more! So I pulled out all the stops.

I have some wood from a tree that a neighbor cut down a couple of weeks ago. It was a live tree and I ended up with a decent pile of logs ranging from 2" to 6" in diameter. This tree did not have any tree friends. It was ugly and bent and twisted with a ridiculous number of branches and knots. The wood is still mostly wet and sappy. I figured this would be a good test.

With dry wood it seems like you can baton a quarter to a third the length of a log and it will split. Not this stuff. Most of the logs I'd need to pound and pound with the baton easily through three quarters of the logs. These babies were relentless in their refusal to split! I pounded so long and hard that I broke the first wrist thick baton. Through all the misshapen wet logs with freakish HARD knots, the LC did its thing. I actually got tired!

The LC did great. I nicked the patio once and lost count of the number of times I was sure a knot was going to prove too stubborn and damage that edge. But, holy crap, the edge was nearly unfazed! I am not kidding!!! Where I nicked the concrete there was a tiny "silver" spot on the curviest part of the belly and two places where my fingernail slightly hung up on the edge but that was it. I couldn't shave arm hair but it would slice paper (not push cut). That. Is. Impressive.

I used a Work Sharp Field Sharpener ceramic rod and with less than 5 swipes per side it was like factory fresh. That edge is amazing. Do we dare say that the edge is cutting edge?

Wow. Well done to Nate, Jo and Lorien...and all those that were involved in the 3v heat treat tweaks. I'm still all bug-eyed over it.

I feel bad about the "dainty" thing. I was so wrong!

 

[JustinFournier]

Uh scissors...

You remember that earlier line you used in your first reply right??

Hahahahaha I love this thread.

 

[tinfoil hat timmy]

It surely is a racecar. Nothing dainty about it. It is in fact hungry, as mine took a bite out of my finger less than two hours after receiving it. Lovely.