R&D,18th c.American axe

Damn, dude!

Square_peg,i'm really sorry,i meant about the last,today's,job...(what i get for checking mssgs in the middle of the day's running about..:(
So,yeah,thank you,it was a blast getting there on hammer only...:)

A bit-emphasized design of fixed head weight will have its balance point forward of the eye

Thanks for the input...i just plain Dunno...

I suppose it's all i can do to just try to copy the design,and hope that whatever qualities put into it by original designers will Manifest themselves...
This is SUCH a neat design,and(a gut feeling)super important in understanding American axes in general,all these Jerseys and Connies in this germ-like phase!:)

The most important thing is to be able to interpret it correctly from data.
We've had the photos and a few surviving originals,and i'm just trying to add,if possible,a few grains of knowledge the only way i know how...By seeing what iron itself wants to do...

These are,primarily,hand-forged design quite literally.
It's a mixed blessing to have my power-hammer down at this time,but it sure makes this research very honest!:)
 
Square_peg,i'm really sorry,i meant about the last,today's,job...(what i get for checking mssgs in the middle of the day's running about..:(
So,yeah,thank you,it was a blast getting there on hammer only...:)



Thanks for the input...i just plain Dunno...

I suppose it's all i can do to just try to copy the design,and hope that whatever qualities put into it by original designers will Manifest themselves...
This is SUCH a neat design,and(a gut feeling)super important in understanding American axes in general,all these Jerseys and Connies in this germ-like phase!:)

The most important thing is to be able to interpret it correctly from data.
We've had the photos and a few surviving originals,and i'm just trying to add,if possible,a few grains of knowledge the only way i know how...By seeing what iron itself wants to do...

These are,primarily,hand-forged design quite literally.
It's a mixed blessing to have my power-hammer down at this time,but it sure makes this research very honest!:)


As a rule of thumb, modern American axes tend to balance about 1/4" inside the front of the eye. But an important thing about dialing back the timeline on designs is that many of the principles that were uncovered and made use of in later designs were less universally understood in earlier periods on a technical level, and most patterns were hit on just due to years of personal experience and intuition of being attentive to the work at hand, and thinking about how their tools were working. How often have you been performing a task and thought "I wish this tool was more ______ and less ______" or "I sure could use a dedicated tool for this part of the task"? That's largely how the evolution in tool design went. When folks needed a new tool they'd take that critical analysis that had built up over time and tell it to the smith. Sometimes they were right about what they needed, sometimes less so, and sometimes features stayed traditional for the sake of tradition, not due to superiority in performance vs. other options. But eventually, progress would be made, and the more those ideas spread, the better industry understood the core concepts at a universal level. But ultimately it all still falls back on context. :)
 
:) :) :)

Kevin,thank you,and yes,that is about what happens in this process.

Your diagram is indeed how this type of construction works,and it's how we think about it.

In practice,however,some things happen unexpectedly;some due to the lack of careful planning,others purely random(particularly when using essentially Junk materials).

Originally,long time ago,tools rarely were designed from scratch.
Apprenticeship lasted 6-7 years got you familiar with the tools and process in general,then as a Journeyman you traveled around different shops becoming familiar with different ways that other people did things.

But eventually a smith settled to a pre-existing method.Tools,materials,fuel,proportions of stock,style of the product et c. were all developed over a very long period of time by a succession of people,evolving very slowly.

At present we're missing So many parts of the puzzle that it's not even funny...Some things we may never learn,as in Why they were done that way.

Here's a funky fact that has an "elephant in the room" kind of effect,always present,but nothing can be done about it,so ignoring it becomes a habit:

Forging,by definition,as in Plastic Deformation,requires an N-th Minimal Effort.
Meaning that the energy applied to a chunk of steel must Penetrate all throughout the piece,with sufficient force.
ONLY then it qualifies as a Forging blow.If it is less than N,it is then only a Riveting blow,the distortion is limited to whatever depth from surface,not affecting the entire mass.

So on average the amount of steel that a person can forge by hand is somewhere around 5/8" square stock...Only that much can be truly Forged,in a controlled manner.

That force requirement increases not gradually but in a mathematical( i think)proportion,rapidly exceeding the ability of a human to truly forge a chunk of steel properly.

An axe of any size is already beyond what any human can handle(a scrawny old worn-out human like me especially).
To some extent at least this is helped by Welding,which is a combination of fusion and deformation.
And other assorted trickery.

All that makes the planning even more complicated.But yes,computations are great,and very necessary,and Mensuration was long a most important part of forging science.
BUT-it can only work properly if one had an unlimited force at one's disposal.
(let's say a self-contained air-hammer in,oh,maybe 1 ton capacity,i'd call that unlimited for an average axe).

So yes,it Is useful,and very helpful in a way,but very far from the Whole story...
 
As a rule of thumb, modern American axes tend to balance about 1/4" inside the front of the eye. But an important thing about dialing back the timeline on designs is that many of the principles that were uncovered and made use of in later designs were less universally understood in earlier periods on a technical level, and most patterns were hit on just due to years of personal experience and intuition of being attentive to the work at hand, and thinking about how their tools were working. How often have you been performing a task and thought "I wish this tool was more ______ and less ______" or "I sure could use a dedicated tool for this part of the task"? That's largely how the evolution in tool design went. When folks needed a new tool they'd take that critical analysis that had built up over time and tell it to the smith. Sometimes they were right about what they needed, sometimes less so, and sometimes features stayed traditional for the sake of tradition, not due to superiority in performance vs. other options. But eventually, progress would be made, and the more those ideas spread, the better industry understood the core concepts at a universal level. But ultimately it all still falls back on context. :)

Thank you,that is good stuff,and very well put.

Seems like so far in all the prototyping i'm coming up with balance point anywhere from the front edge,to about a 1/4" inside the eye...

But now in an attempt to build this taller(deeper eye) version i suspect that it'll be moving back towards the poll...just a gut feeling,at this point...
 
Well,surprisingly,that critter did weld up for me...

Challenging deal,the entire head,all 4 pieces,had to be welded at the same time

Way out of control forging for my skinny ass ...

But so far it feels ok.Ground into all seams,surprisingly little crappy ones(i don't see Any,but know that they're there,or will be as i get tired and space out on heating).

But overall Very interesting.Forging at this point(mid-day breather) is 5"+ long,edge over 4"(! love that),and still over 3/8" at edge,so lots of potential.
Poll 1" thick by 3"+ long,but not plated yet(i'd better do it before much more drifting takes place,i think that's Why they plated the poll!:))
But i'm verging on loss of control with such mass,and the shape of outline does what it does,it ain't up to me...
https://imgur.com/a/sbRLSLB
 
I don't like the way the mass got away from me up at the top,it kinda turns this into a different pattern axe.
I'll cut it along that soapstone line...(i'l use a cut-off disk,but could chop it off with a side-cut hot...this was commonly done in the past,an axe trimmed all around).
https://imgur.com/eGvDXN9

Yes,i like it much better trimmed.
Starting to grind,and here they are,crappy segments among my welds.
(under the grindwheel the thin delaminated spots show up clearly by running oxidation colors,there you can see it near the toe:https://imgur.com/bgPNsir

I'm not surprised to see bad welds at all,these were some Big areas to weld up in my dinky little forge...Many sq. inches.
But we'll see with further grinding just how full of it this laminate is.
It's still quite thick,about 1/4" at edge.
Edge length is 4",overall axe just under 6"
 
Quick,before imgur turds out on me again i'll upload top and bottom views...

Top:https://imgur.com/GR6mPWa
(the void is where the two outer layers of WI have squashed past and lipped over the steel insert,another reason for that trim).

And bottom:https://imgur.com/sbWEVy8
I guess i left that drift pretty square aft,not narrowed it some,as originally intended to.
 
Should be feasible?

Kevin...nein,it wouldn't work that great...

Hobby-level knife-makers use as little as 20T,but with a real cylinder/valve/pump,otherwise fluid doesn't cool,et c....But in rerality 40T is kinda minimum,to make it worth the trouble...But,yeah,press-forging in industry is uber cool!

I'm glad you've had a chance to enjoy forging,and ornamental iron is neat too,very educational(it's my background as well,got bored And went broke!:)AND,i love tools...:)).
 
Wow,Kevin,that is Uber cool!:)
So it's a diffusion weld,in essence(as in Heat/Pressure/Atmosphere triangle,if any factor taken high enough/nothing else matters?)
Good stuff! (i think they do oil and gas pipelines like that around here)

Yes,build a windmill geared to a big-ass helve!:)...Make sure all gearing is that gorgeous wooden,pegged kinda stuff,though,otherwise it's no fun!

I lived (and still have a camp)on a creek with lots of head...Even over-shot wheel was possible there...But never got of my duff on that.Live on a biggish creek now,but then again,I do have a mechanical hammer...(it's now been 6 years since our big flood,i ought to see if that motor dried out yet...:)
 
That is terrific!
I don't like the way the mass got away from me up at the top,it kinda turns this into a different pattern axe.
I'll cut it along that soapstone line...(i'l use a cut-off disk,but could chop it off with a side-cut hot...this was commonly done in the past,an axe trimmed all around).
https://imgur.com/eGvDXN9

Yes,i like it much better trimmed.
Starting to grind,and here they are,crappy segments among my welds.
(under the grindwheel the thin delaminated spots show up clearly by running oxidation colors,there you can see it near the toe:https://imgur.com/bgPNsir

I'm not surprised to see bad welds at all,these were some Big areas to weld up in my dinky little forge...Many sq. inches.
But we'll see with further grinding just how full of it this laminate is.
It's still quite thick,about 1/4" at edge.
Edge length is 4",overall axe just under 6"
bgPNsir.jpg
 
Agent_H,thanks:)...It was very Satisfying,that's for sure...
A17 did a great job transmuting photograph into measurements,couldn't done it without him,thanks a` lot!

What are the specs of that thing?

Kevin,i'm sorry,i'm kidding of course...My poor old LG25 is electric(thanks,Ben!:),and the only thing i ever ran off of That is a hydraulic pump(that's what making a godawful noise in video:(

It's just an old single double-acting stationary,6"x 6",a pump or generator engine in it's past...I had to rebuild Much in it,fabricate many parts even,and it too drowned in that flood...Rich source of forging material though!:)
 
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