R & D - Re-design project - need opinions

Sal Glesser

Sal Glesser

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Spyderco R&D team has an assignment to "re-design" or update (refine, improve, evolve) most of the older models. No rock is left unturned, all theories and ideas are examined.

Many of these models were designed in the '80's and might be ripe for "new".

We would like to create a 2010 version of each model under examination.

The first model to be scrutinized is the C09 CoPilot. This model was designed circa 1986. We've made a few changes but it is basically the same pattern it has always been. It was designed to be an ariline model used as a money clip.

We eventually dropped the plain edge version because 9 out of 10 sales were serrated. We are currently bringing back the plain edge version due to new airline rules saying "no teeth".

Now we need to know what we should do to improve it. All you closet designers, break out your pencils and re-create! Can think of no better group to solicit help from.
sal

 
Sal, you know Spyderco fans are always ready to get in on the action! With the addition of the nifty Pegasus/Navigator/Experimental almites, the cricket (forgot this one first post), and the great Dragonfly, I don't see a need for the CoPilot in the line-up any more, truthfully. You've simply created new knives that, in my opinion, are better than the CoPilot as it's currently produced. If you want to keep the CoPilot name alive, then use it to name the newer almite experimentals (SP-99/SP-100). If you continue the CoPilot with the same handle design, the plain edge variant is a must (thanks FAA); but maybe try different handle materials like Ti, micarta, or carbon fiber.

Chad

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savsport@aeroinc.net

AKTI Member #A000094

Honey, I swear that's the last knife I'm going to buy...




[This message has been edited by Savman (edited 29 July 1999).]
 
Replace the lock back with the liner lock a la Cricket. I find that the knife of this size is extremely difficult to open due to the lack of leverage. The Cricket's lock seems to be time tested; it should work great for the Copilot.

Personally, I prefer a needle sharp point in smaller knives. I'd like the blade shape streamlined to provide a sharper point.

sjc

 
I think the CoPilot is a strong model, design wise.

I was planning on geting one as soon as I saw one in plain.

The handle, unlike the Pegasus and Navigator, does not force you into a specific grip. I think the handle should stay the same. Also the blade handle angle was pretty agressive if my memory serves me.

I like the idea of other handle materials, especially titanium and carbon fiber, maybe even colored carbon fiber or anodized titanum, or milled titanium. Hide the knife in the designs. Or go with the Almite and handle slots, even though they might encourage lint to collect.

I think the size of the CoPillot makes it a perfect platform to put fancy stuff on, since the resulting knife won't cost too much.

The blade could get a little more point, but more than that I would like to see a little more curve.

And plain is going to be very nice.

Now lock wise, I have no problem with the rocker lock, and I trust you folks in the SpyderWeb to do liner lock well, but I think the Rolling Lock would not work. Personally I would say leave the rocker lock.

Sal, were there any specific complaints about the CoPilot?

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Marion David Poff aka Eye, one can msg me at mdpoff@hotmail.com

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/1770/index.html
 
First, what's the difference between a re-design and and a new knife? I don't think one can (or at least should) look at this on a knife by knife basis, but instead try to identify general categories of knives (and then make the tough judgement call on how many are needed in the 'same' category -- everyone won't like the same style of knife).

If this one sells well, then it should be kept in the product line, but if it sells very well, then perhaps it shouldn't be changed a lot at all.

...but I assume you've gone through all that already, and know you want a new C09.

I don't think it needs another blade steel. But I'd give it a flat grind.

I don't think it needs another handle material. It's light enough already, and balanced and solid. But it might need something to give a better grip, so I'd give it the same treatment the Hunter got to become the Pro-Venator.

If you're serious about the "flying" part, take off the tip. Not that it'd be allowed in the cabin anyway next place I'm going I think, so that's never been a factor when I've chosen knives.

In fact, way back, when I choose between Hunter, Executive and Co-Pilot, I choose Executive (I think because it was smaller than the Hunter and felt better than the Co-Pilot), and that's the one knife I've used almost every day (but not all day) since then. So that's actually the knife I'd like to design a new version of/replacement for.


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Urban Fredriksson
www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/

 
I like the idea of dressing it up a bit with either color in the handle, or even an ironwood handle.
 
If the CoPilot is kept as-is for design, how about changing the handle material to aluminum and adding textured Kraton inserts? With a flat-ground plain edge, of course.

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savsport@aeroinc.net

AKTI Member #A000094

Honey, I swear that's the last knife I'm going to buy...


 
The CoPilot was my first Spyderco so, for sentimental reasons at least, I'm glad you are keeping it in the line up.
-plain edge, flat ground blade
-micarta or aluminum handle (Kraton or other rubber insert would be nice and would allow for factory or after market addition of fancy inlay like wood or bone. If this knife is to be marketed with the idea of being a money clip the fancier versions might sell well.)
-keep the mid lock, the Toad fills the small linerlock slot well
-choil?(This could be a good idea but I can't decide yet, the handle is very secure as is)

That's my .02 which might be worth even less since I don't seem to like the same things that the average ELU is buying.

What I would really like to see is Spyderco bring out a flat ground, plain edge Sheepsfoot or Wharncliffe style folder in a smaller size. A small Sheepsfoot blade is very useful for most utility chores and might seem less threatening to the hoplophobes. A wharncliffe blade is more pointy but I would love to see one (in any size) on a Spyderco folder. I've heard it argued that the Centofante has a Wharncliffe blade but it does have a little belly.

I'm glad you are keeping the CoPilot and I am especially glad you are keeping the Calypso Jr in Black Micarta.
Paul
 
Sal,
Can I fax my redesigned Co-pilot? If so what number do I dial? TIA

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PRIGGER


 
A CoPilot was my international travel companion for quite some time. Very non-threatening in airports outside the US where something the size of a Delica would draw adverse attention.

I shifted over to a Dragonfly for a variety of reasons. Plain-edge, flat ground blade doesn't cause airport security folks to panic from the "deadly steak knife" syndrome. Pointed handle base can effectively be used for Kubotan style strikes while the blade is closed (nice escalation of force option). Slightly better opening ergonomics (the lower height of the Dragonfly handle allows the thumb to more naturally come in contact with the Spydie hole). Better grip versus the steel handle on the CoPilot. And it's tip up (no religious flames please). I believe the Dragonfly to be one of the best very small knife designs that can be used for utility or defense purposes.

Do a redesign of the CoPilot incorporating some of the best features of the Dragonfly above. Put some classy G-10/whatever slabs on it so it doesn't look tactical.

I'll buy one...

Joel
 
Well, your making a plain edge. That was my first suggestion. The 2nde would be G-10 scales. Third is liner lock. Forth idea might seem a little strange....Maintain the current blade, length and plain edge. Mkae the handle longer, so you can get a more secure grip on the knife. Maybe 3" handle.
 
A little liner lock, with G-10 scales.
Perhaps a more aggressive blade shape?

[This message has been edited by Cronnacht (edited 29 July 1999).]
 
Please consider a regular production plain tanto with a G-10 handle. The Bob Lum tanto is just too $$$.
 
I’d like to see a flat-ground blade and a different handle material…perhaps something a little less tactical and utilitarian in appearance. I realize that Spydercos have always been designed with functionality as the primary concern but I think that a more elegant handle material would be appropriate for the specialized niche served by the Copilot. After all, it is my understanding that this knife was conceived as a non-threatening tool that would pass muster at all airline gates…unfortunately, I think that stainless steel and black synthetics often appear intimidating to non-knife people. I would love to see this knife available with maroon or forest green Micarta handles; organic materials such as exotic woods or jigged bone would be even better…(if not particularly Spyder-ish
smile.gif
)

Jim
 
I like the handle of the CoPilot, it combines with the blade spine shapes very well.

It really locks into my hand.

Adn the edge presents itself well.

And that is hard for me to say, since I usually have some sort of gripe about a handle.

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Marion David Poff aka Eye, one can msg me at mdpoff@hotmail.com

Check out the blinking story an online pleasure. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/1770/index.html
 
While I love the light-weight handle materials currently being used.... I'd like to see a few in wood ( ironwood, cocobolo, birds-eye maple etc.) or Mother of Pearl for those "dress-up" occasions.

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"Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars.
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispin's day.'" ...Wm. Shakespeare
 
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